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Pastimes : Don't Ask Rambi -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: JF Quinnelly who wrote (46401)	2/3/2000 10:41:00 AM
From: Ilaine	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 71178

people.cornell.edu Excellent point. The face in the Shroud of Turin isn't distorted, it is flat, and looks remarkably like a medieval painting. But if it were created by radiation while draped over the face of a corpse, then the image would be distorted, not flat.

To: JF Quinnelly who wrote (46401)	2/3/2000 12:12:00 PM
From: Rambi	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 71178

Hi, Freddy, You know what really makes me upset? Watching two very intelligent and educated and nice people who should be quite capable of seeing the two sides of this issue and being sensitive to what the other is saying, being unable to do so. IT scares me becuase I know you both and like you both and if this happens here, then how can we EVER expect reasonable discourse anywhere else? The point was only that the Confederate flag, whatever it means to you personally, means other things to other people, and some of it's ugly. The Flag has no meaning intrinsically. Symbols are a very subjective and inconstant thing, perceived in conjunction with the groups that use them, and the actions of the people displaying them. As we discussed with the swastika, there doesn't need to be connections between the meanings from one usage to the next. It's just the association-- like the time when I was ten, and stuffed myself with watermelon for breakfast, went out in a boat and got deathly sick. I hate even thinking about watermelon. And even though it's your favorite fruit, I like to think that you wouldn't serve it to me -- now that I've told you that it makes me gag. But if you didn't know, and served it, I could hardly be offended by its nasty pink presence on my plate. So while for many Southerners, the flag calls to mind the old South, the honor, the sacrifices, a lost gracious way of life, a heritage, to others it reminds them that once they were owned by other men and didn't even have their own names. And then the KKK unfortunately did wave the flag- whether in the 20s or not doesn't really matter- because their taint is now on it, and it DID become a symbol of racial hate, and white superiority when associated with them. Symbols aren't RIGHT or WRONG in themselves, only in what they're perceived as representing by a person. Now personally, as much as I love the South, knowing that the flag is hurtful and offensive in what it recalls to some, I can easily forego hanging it in my car, or tattooing it on my forehead. However, if you want it over the mantel, that's just fine with me. (Oh , and I disagree with Steven on this. You certainly do have the right to fly it instead of the pineapple or the Happy Face if you want, and no one else has the right to put smellypoo in your yard--- that's YOUR yard.) Of course, it would be soooo wonderful if you could say, I fly this because for me it means pride in the South, in honor of the men who fought and died, I really love the South, and then he could say, I understand, but you know, for me it means hatred and it saddens and upsets me, but I respect your right to fly it. So I'll just turn my head. And then you say, gosh, why don't I fly it in the back yard, where I can see it, but it won't hurt you. And he says, Wow, that's really nice of you. Want a beer?