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To: Harold S. who wrote (60458)	2/16/2000 11:00:00 PM
From: Think4Yourself	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 95453

The poster is wrong about both power and the cars (typical for Shell). As most of us know, power generation is going to NG at a dramatic pace, completely changing the NG supply demand picture in the process. It's going FROM COAL, not oil, so the argument of the poster is wrong. Anyone burning oil for power generation would be losing their shirt. MAYBE the poster means overseas, but the US is the #1 consumer Fuel cell cars will need a major distribution network in order to be accepted by society. The first commercial generation of fuel cell cars will almost certainly run on gasoline. This type of fuel cell is available now (I read about it last summer). It's great because there are virtually no emissions. Of course elimination of the sulpher from gasoline will allow the automakers to accomplish virtually the same thing with current technology. The sulpher will almost certainly have to be removed either way. Would YOU buy an expensive new car not knowing if you could refuel it on vacation? Not me! Shell has made a lot of assinine statements in the past year but this is by far the dumbest.

To: Harold S. who wrote (60458)	2/16/2000 11:34:00 PM
From: kormac	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 95453

Harold, regarding the quote from Yahoo FLC board, i.e. ?THE long-term trend is the decarbonisation of the energy system,? says Mandy Patag of Shell?s ?scenario-planning? department. ?I?m not saying oil will disappear altogether, but oil?s share of the market will go down.? Understanding future energy requirements means understanding the future needs of both transport and power generation, which together account for 70-80 per cent of global oil consumption. ?We?re moving away from internal combustion engines, which have dominated the last 100 years,? says Patag. ?We?re moving to fuel cells.? Shell Hydrogen expects to see fuel cell-powered clean cars onto the road ?from 2004 onwards?. Power generation will also shift away from oil, as the ?dash to gas? continues, which clear consequences for the oil industry. An article from Wired (huh) web.one.net.au Some quotes: "It is likely to take 50 to 100 years to achieve a mature "hydrogen economy," but the impact of fuel cells should be felt long before that." "Yet shifting to hydrogen-powered fuel cell cars will not be easy. True enough, hydrogen is already used in all sorts of processing, from the hardening of fats and oils - hydrogenation - to, ironically enough, oil refining. But hydrogen, like gasoline, must be manufactured: it bonds so easily with other elements that it doesn't exist naturally on Earth in pure form. " "The trouble is that while gasoline is sold in 200,000filling stations across the US, the hydrogen infrastructure is minuscule. " "More worrisome, hydrogen can't easily be stored in a car." "A transitional solution may lie in fuel cells' flexibility: they can run on any hydrogen-rich fuel, including gasoline. Chrysler, in fact, is developing a "fuel-flexible" fuel cell engine that can run on a variety of fuels, from gasoline to hydrogen. The engine will include a reformer that can convert gasoline and other fuels to hydrogen, neatly bypassing hydrogen's infrastructure and storage problems." "Ford's fuel choice is the most daring and potentially most beneficial choice: hydrogen. Ford is banking on the validity of studies by Sandy Thomas and Joan Ogden, a Princeton researcher, suggesting that hydrogen's infrastructure problem could be solved by using excess refinery hydrogen and supplying filling stations with reformers capable of converting natural gas to hydrogen. " etc etc. Fuell cells are not the panacea. It takes energy to produce the hydrogen and at one time it was thought that this would be done by nuclear power plants by electrolysis. Hmmm....you know where that idea is now. Bottom line, you need the hydrocarbons to either make the fuel or to power the fuel cells. (By the way methane can poison a fuel cell). I am happy with my investment in OEI for this and many other reasons. with my best, Seppo