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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Grainne who wrote (74779)	2/21/2000 8:54:00 AM
From: lorrie coey	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

"...everything I have ever read about tree spiking includes the statement that spiked trees are clearly marked, and that the environmentalists do this as a deterrent AGAINST the destruction of old growth trees, not as a sadistic thrill to maim loggers." CGB, some spiked trees are clearly marked as you described; others are NOT marked at all...

To: Grainne who wrote (74779)	2/21/2000 12:16:00 PM
From: Ilaine	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 108807

Another way of looking at spiking trees is that the environmentalist is staking (no pun intended) a claim in the tree. There are competing interests in the tree, not just that of the environmentalist, not just that of the logger, there is the interest we all have in breathing, and having air to breathe, and in living, and in having a viable ecosystem, for example, but the logger can wipe all the interests out with the swipe of a chain saw. Does anyone really think that it would be a good thing if every tree on the face of the earth was cut down? No, of course not. Well, then there must be a place to stop. Where is it? Do we let the people with chainsaws make the decisions unilaterally? I think not. You don't have an unlimited right to do what you want with your property. You can't use it in a way that interferes with the rights of others. And one thing is certain, the people who stand to benefit by any decision are going to scream bloody murder when the decision goes the other way, and file endless appeals and requests for reconsideration and special bills with the legislature. In the meantime, spiking trees maintains the status quo, until all the decisions are debated, and the decision-making process is concluded.

To: Grainne who wrote (74779)	2/21/2000 4:45:00 PM
From: one_less	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

<<Does the logger sell himself short or act in an irrational way when he seems to believe that he is not capable of supporting himself without killing trees?>> When I lived in Southern Oregon some entire towns were dependant on the lumber industry. When the lumber economy sagged we all went on food stamps. Whether you worked for a lumber company or not that is where the money came from to fuel the local economy. I lived in Oregon for a few years in my youth. I worked on several unskilled jobs in the forest. Mostly as a tree planter. But I did have an occasion once to handle a chain saw to work on a thinning contract. This is the process of cutting out some of the trees when the growth is young so that the remaining trees grow big for lumber production. The reports that I got from the other men on chain saw accidents were terrible. It takes only a single moment out of a thirty or forty year career to ruin a healthy body. Freak accidents were very common and more the rule of what could happen than the exception. However there were a few types of accidents that were common; one of those was when the saw would buck. That can happen when a saw hits a hard knot or rock lodged in the wood or something. It causes the saw to jump back toward the operator. Usually the operators keep their elbo locked so that when a saw bucks, it flys over thier head instead of up in their face or shoulder or something. This is more likely to happen to a novice operater than someone experienced. This could be the thing loggers are worried about. The first day I used a saw to do a thinning contract the boss made me wear a chap (quilted nylon) across my left thigh. The small trees were so thick, it felt like trimming a hedge. The tendancy in this case was that while pulling a little cut tree out of my way with my right hand the saw would dip in my left hand and hit my knee. I cut that chap four times the first day and never after that. Distractions or other things that could interfere with the smooth operation of the saw are probably the most likely cause of accidents. The problem here is that if the tree cutters have the distraction of watching for or worrying about these spikes; that in and of itself contributes to the possibility of accidents.