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To: Jim Willie CB who wrote (5212)	2/27/2000 3:16:00 AM
From: elpolvo	Respond to of 35685

/ uncle jim- re:my guess is the selfesteem first suffers, then the behavior is manifested to bring about the desired result: social unacceptance you don't guess too good dude. can't believe nobody slapped your face on this one. my guess is that you're RIGHT... about 15% of the time... on social psychology. you (wrote) my last comment on the subject (for real) free at lass. thank godalmighty. we free atlas. let's talk about pickin' up babes instead. :-) and how there's sumpin' wrong wif women when they don't respond right. -polvoriento

To: Jim Willie CB who wrote (5212)	2/27/2000 3:08:00 PM
From: mtnlady	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 35685

You totally lost me JW on your reply. I believe you are implying that because a person suffers a low self esteem that THEN society doesn't accept them. I would say you are correct on an individual basis - to a point. Your theory would only hold though if every person in society didn't make 'judgments' concerning others until they met them personally and got to know them for awhile. Unfortunately that doesn't happen. People buy into silly notions about other groups of people and make 'judgments' upon the group as a 'whole' rather get to know them on an individual by individual basis. In California we are faced with some difficult and divisive legislation and we were trying to explain it to our children the other day. Half way through my clumsy response our 7 year old daughter stopped me and said ... don't worry Mommy I think I understand. She explained they had just learned about Martin Luther King a couple of weeks ago and learned how people didn't treat other people right because they THOUGHT something about them without really knowing the person. She went on to explain that people should just get to know each other's hearts and then decide if they wanted to be their friend or not. I almost cried and told her that she explained it far better than I could. JW I can't just let 'this go' because I want our children to live in a better place. JW, I have worked for years with our church which for quite a long timed seemed to have a special outreach into the gay and lesbian community and later with street people and those 'down and out'. I too have been in many of those 'ugly' places you talked about being at yourself. I have seen hundreds of young gay people out on the streets because their parents kicked them out either physically or emotionally. What is a 15-16 year old going to do on the streets? Very sad. Most had strong and courageous hearts and where some of the strongest, most courageous, loving and forgiving people (because they had to learn to forgive others that had been so unkind to them) I have ever had the privilege and honor to meet. No JW, they were not on the street and drug addicts etc.. because of some 'flaw' in their 'character'. They were there because their parents didn't accept them. And their parents didn't accept them because they were taught by society or some incorrect religious thinking to not accept them. And I do mean religious and not Christian - for it is truly different than what Christ would do or teach. For He taught us not to judge for that was reserved for him to do. He taught us to turn no one away for the Father turns none away. And He taught us to love, be compassionate, show mercy and kindness for His Father in Heaven does. In short JW your argument only holds up if people truly got to know others on a one-to-one basis and then make their 'judgments' concerning them. Unfortunately that doesn't happen. At least not yet. There... NOW I can say I too am finished with the subject! :-)