In the post below, in italics, your post was answered.
Tell me exactly what alleged acts, as regards Bush, that I have mentioned, you will, if you believe they occurred, agree are contemptible, and I will source them. You must agree in advance that if the source is probative, the data will not be received by you in your usual way. I agree to this wearily, since my experience has been that no source is ever believed, including the persnickety Financial Times on spelling, no fact goes undismissed, no outrage goes unglossed-over, no datum tending to discredit the puerile paladin so admired on this thread is ever assimilated. I have seen this so many times that the predictableness is kind of discouraging. But go ahead.
To: Neocon who wrote (14808)
From: E
Friday, Mar 10, 2000 11:05 PM ET
Reply # of 15048
<<<Yes, you are a bigot. The mere fact that Bush had a casual
association with Moon makes him a
"paid shill" in your eyes (Coretta Scott King spoke at a similar event.
Does that make her a
"paid shill"?)>>>
A "casual association"?
This is why I described Bush pere as a paid shill for the Moonies:
George Bush made a paid appearance at a launch event in November of
1996 for Sun Myung Moon's Latin American version of The Washington
Times, Tiempos Del Mundo. Moon was under pressure as a result of
uncomplimentary press coverage highlighting his links to the South
Korean CIA and his ties to neo-fascists in South America. Bush traveled
to Buenos Aires and appeared as the keynote speaker at the Moon
event. The Moonies were very happy with his speech. Here is a quote
from the Moonie house organ, The Unification News. "We knew he
would give an appropriate and nice speech, but praise in Father's
presence was more than we expected... it was vindication... the day
after, the press did a 180 degree about turn, once they realized that
the event had the support of a U.S. President."
La Nacion reported after this event that Bush had claimed privately to
the Prime Minister of Argentina, Menem, to be only a mercenary who
didn't really know Moon. This is a quote from La Nacion, of Prime
Minister Menem: "Bush told me he came and charged money to do it."
In September, 1995, George and Barbara gave six speeches in Asia for
a Moonie front, the Women's Federation for World Peace, a group led
by Moon's wife. These were all paid appearances, of course. He
acknowleges that, though he has refused to divulge how much he has
been paid.
In summer, 1996, Bush addressed the Moon-connected Family
Federation for World Peace in Washington. (Bill Cosby was on the
program, and tried to get out of it when he learned of Moon's
connection, which got a lot of publicity.)
These are the appearances I've been able to find. They are enough, I
think, to establish that Bush more than "had a casual association with
Moon." The association went on for years, and he was paid for it.
Estimates I have found are in the millions, and that wouldn't be
surprising, given the wealth of the Unification Church, and what Bush's
speaking for them offered. As I said, he won't say how much money he
received for these services.
As I said, he was a paid shill for a terrible cause.
BTW, as a point of mild interest, Moon's theology asserts that
"Christians who fail, or refuse to acknowledge, the Lord of the Second
Advent (ie Moon), will be, like the Jews who failed to acknowledge or
recognize Jesus as Messiah."
As for the Jews themselves, Moon's comments in his book say that the
"ignorance," "disbelief," and "stubbornness" of the Jewish people
placed them "on the side of Satan." In fact, the whole book is full of
antisemitic comment.
Moon, btw, is, according to authority (himself) the second Messiah,
sent by God because of Jesus's failure to procreate, having died
before he could father any "sinless children." In his personal life, Moon
has set about remedying this situation. He has fathered many sinless
children. I was interested in the interview with one of Moon's
daughters in law I saw on TV. She had fled the beatings and rage and
drug addiction and alcoholism of her sinless husband.
Maybe Bush fils, in light of his experience at BJ University, will have
learned a little about the value of distancing oneself from odious
doctrines and practices. I wonder if he will distance himself from his
mother and father's moneymaking activities on behalf of Jesus's
successor, the outrageous Sun Myung Moon.
It is not I who is a bigot. It is not my fault that Bush has such
connections with people who have made bigot-like comments, such as Pat
Robertson and the Reverend Moon. It is not fair to call me names
because I bring this to the attention of his admirers.
It can be hard to point out that the Emperor has no clothes when the
desire to believe he does is so strong that pointing out the awkward
facts will get you called names; so strong that what can only fairly be
described as a years-long history of paid promotional appearances for a
dreadful person and his sinister cause (he merely wants to control the
world) is passed off as "a casual association." It was not casual to the
Moonies, you may be sure. It was, to them, worth every million.
As to your question about Coretta Scott King: If she did it repeatedly,
once she knew the nature of the outfit she was lending her prestige to,
and received a lot of money for these repeated appearances, she sure
is a paid shill. Of course! That's what a paid shill is, whether you are
made unhappy by it or not. Did she do that?
You don't find W's lapses to be discomfiting, I do. That's fine. I also
think they're funny. I guess you don't-- but not even these?:
"The most important job is not to be governor, or
first lady in my case."?Pella, Iowa, as quoted by
the San Antonio Express-News, Jan. 30, 2000
"Will the highways on the Internet become more
few?"?Concord, N.H., Jan. 29, 2000
"This is Preservation Month. I appreciate
preservation. It's what you do when you run for
president. You gotta preserve."?Speaking during
"Perseverance Month" at Fairgrounds Elementary
School in Nashua, N.H. As quoted in the Los
Angeles Times, Jan. 28, 2000
"I know how hard it is for you to put food on your
family."?Greater Nashua, N.H., Chamber of
Commerce, Jan. 27, 2000
"The important question is, How many hands have
I shaked?"?Answering a question about why he
hasn't spent more time in New Hampshire, in the
New York Times, Oct. 23, 1999
"If the East Timorians decide to revolt, I'm sure I'll
have a statement."?Quoted by Maureen Dowd in
the New York Times, June 16, 1999
"It was just inebriating what Midland was all about
then."?From a 1994 interview, as quoted in First
Son, by Bill Minutaglio
"I don't have to accept their tenants. I was trying
to convince those college students to accept my
tenants. And I reject any labeling me because I
happened to go to the university."?Today, Feb.
23, 2000
"If you're sick and tired of the politics of cynicism
and polls and principles, come and join this
campaign."?Hilton Head, S.C., Feb. 16, 2000
[Edit: it's not fair only to post odd remarks by W. Here's a description
of some of Moon's comments at one of the two events in Latin America
at which Bush appeared. (He appeared at two, not one.) Meanwhile Moon
was in full flow, asking his 700 guest such penetrating questions as "why
do sexual organs exist?" and "when you defecate, do you wear a gas
mask?" ]
P.S.
Quick quote from Sun Myung Moon, addressing his followers: "I am your brain."
Have I mentioned this one earlier?:
"All Christians are going to hell" [if they don't embrace him as the New Messiah.]
The original source of many of the most quotable of Moon's idiocies is the website of the Unification Church. I also do happen to have a book here, which I might recommend as a primer on the quite nasty origins of Moonism. It's a 1978 book, so about the early period, and contains particularly fascinating material on Moon's part in the South Korean government's attempt to corrupt important members of Congress. Science, Sin and Scholarship, the politics of Reverend Moon and the Unification Church, I.L. Horowitz, ed. MIT Press.
Now, as I understand it, taking big bucks specifically for the service of enhancing this man's influence and prestige and power is, in your view, comparable to having an audience with the Pope.
You choose the appearances at the (Moonie front) women's forum to discuss, but not the appearance in Uruguay before an audience of hundreds of proselytizers in training, nor the appearance in Buenos Aires where his specific mission was, for money and not out of conviction (part of the definition of a shill is personal gain) to break opposition to the establishment of a fledgling Moonie enterprise. BTW, you are woefully behind the curve in your understanding of the Washington Times. Repeated and egregious interference in editorial news policy has occurred. I have, of course, mentioned this, but it has rolled off like water from a duck's back, as usual. One source: the Columbia Journalism Review has addressed this situation in several articles. You are invited to do your own search on this, if it interests you in the least.
The fact that people have kinda forgotten who pulls the strings at the Washington Times is a tribute to Moon's faith in the long term memory problems of the American people.
I am bemused at the image of the Pope paying people large sums of money to enhance his power and prestige by coming for an audience. Do you have evidence, in this or other of the instances you propose as parallels to George's shilling activities, that big buck pecuniary considerations have ever been or might be provided in exchange for prestige/influence appearances? It would be fascinating to know, and I believe I am in a position to see to it that your examples receive the publicity they would so richly deserve. Garden variety honoraria or perdiems or transport expenses are not what we are talking about, of course. Millions would be MOST interesting. |
