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Pastimes : Ask God -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Gersh Avery who wrote (30220)	4/25/2000 1:47:00 AM
From: Lazarus_Long	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 39621

<< In the constitution all swearing in procedures are to be done with one hand placed on a Bible. It also makes provision for a chaplin to open each session of congress with prayer. These are, by no means, all of the references to God and the Bible there. >> It does??????? Where? Here's a link to a searchable version of the Constitution. Find the articles that say anything like that: law.emory.edu Have you actually ever read the document? I've alreay searched for "swear", "oath", "God", "Bible" and "Christ". There were NO hits on "God", "Bible" and "Christ". It does say, though, "The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States." There's also that inconvenient "freedom of religion" thing in the amendments. I've got a question: If you intended to establish a nation adhering to a particular religion, why would you put things like that in it? Do you think the constitution of Iran has anything like that? << I'm positive that it was beyond the wildest nightmares of every one of the founding fathers, that someday any one living in this country could possibly think otherwise. If any of them would have thought it possible, I'm sure that the langauge would have been in there .. no ifs ands or buts. >> Or maybe not. Tom Paine and Ben Franklin were atheists. Thomas Jefferson (he wrote most of the Constitution, in case you didn't know) was a Deist. That's not quite the same thing as a Christian, by the way. Jefferson also wrote Virginia's Statute of Religious Liberty (I believe that was the name, but not entirely sure) before he wrote the Constitution. And ultimately, people in this country get the Constitution they want. The original Constitution provided for slavery; it was amended to make that illegal. And the effective meaning of other parts of it has changed because people wanted the change. More and more people in this country are not Christians. If you think this is a Christian nation, you'd better enjoy it now because it's going away

To: Gersh Avery who wrote (30220)	4/26/2000 8:42:00 AM
From: nihil	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 39621

You haven't even read the Constitution. You are citing English practice, followed, without Constitutional support, by some states. The Constitution requires that no religious test to hold office will ever be required. It specifies an oath (or affirmation) which does not mention god or the bible). One may, if he wishes, take an oath on the bible or any other holy text, but he cannot be required to do so. "So help me God" is often added by the oath-giver and may be repeated by oath-swearer, but it is purely voluntary. Many people refuse to take any oath at all, because of Jesus's instruction to swear no oaths at all. Many others refuse to take oaths on the bible. According to the courts, the exact form of the oath or afformation is irrelevant as long as the Constitutional requirement is met. President's oath (Art. II) --- "I do solemnly (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of the President of the United States, and will to best of my Ability, preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States. Art. VI [all officers of the United States and the states] shall be on Oath or Affirmation to support the Constitution of the United States, but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States. Jesus on the subject of oaths: Matt. 5:33-37. None of the words "god" or "Jesus" or "Christ" or "church" or "holy" appears in the text of the Constitution or the Amendments. IMO, no one can read this document and reasonably conclude that the authors were attempting to establish a Chrisian nation.