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Technology Stocks : Nokia (NOK) -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: JohnG who wrote (4871)	5/15/2000 12:33:00 PM
From: Mika Kukkanen	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 34857

I would also level the protectionism argument very much at the USA (kettle, pot and black seem to link in here). Protectionist policies such as a recent missile order going to a US contractor (after the goals were lowered to ensure they -the US company- remained in the race), the funding of military projects that led to keeping the aviation industries afloat, for example. Not to mention protected markets in communication services (airlines and telephone services all under the paranoia of "for national security"). Seems the long holiday policy in Europe is what we should all be aiming for...why hunt when you don't need to? Who moans about the European economy? I pay high tax to ensure my brothers less fortunate than me can afford mobile phones...on a serious note, things are not as bad as some would like you to believe. The picture you paint, in my eyes, seems to be 20 years out of date. Euro companies have been leading the way in the global economy (witness Vodafone, Ericsson and Nokia as examples relevant to this thread). I am not having a good day. Sorry for the negativity of my posts today...will try to be in a better mood tomorrow.

To: JohnG who wrote (4871)	5/15/2000 8:32:00 PM
From: Joar	Read Replies (4) \| Respond to of 34857

<< No, I don't think much of the European system in general. I am sure Individuals are wonderful people---they are just stuck in a broken system which values "free social benefits" and big vacations >> JohnG, you do seem to do your best to personify and give a real face to the myth of the American unenlightened and uneducated uni-dimensional individual, with no or very limited insight of the world outside the US. The myth about the American who really cannot distinguish between Sweden and Switzerland, who thinks the people of Sweden, Finland, Norway, Denmark, the Netherlands, Germany and other European social welfare nations are living under communist slavery, under an economical and political system somebody else forced on them (the Evil Russians maybe?), and that they never chose themselves. << Deep down in their hearts all Europeans are just Socialists looking for a government hand out >> Your generalizing posts concerning "Europeans" again gives a face to the myth described above: uni-dimensional, un-reflecting, uneducated, and nationalistic... I am sure it is a myth: I have many personal friends "over-there" who have given me lots of proof of that this self-centered view of the world, is not the only way you meet - thank God. I hope you understand, that many people following these lists are persons that have traveled a lot around the world, and that they are able do their own evaluations about the different systems and nations they meet. Do you really live in the fantasy that people from Europe long for another economical-political system, and that they would change it for the American as soon as the had the opportunity? And: as sisuman has pointed out to you earlier, there indeed exists front-positioned industrial and technological successful enterprise outside the US. The list, where you post your generalized insults, bears the name of one of those industrial enterprises: Nokia. About the Tero-attacking post from, stoxnstix, Ruffian, samim anbarcioglu, et consortes, and the Tero-attacking hypocritical, pretentious and schoolteacher attitude "I-like-Tero-but-cant-stand-to-watch-him-talk-about-credibility-when-he-has-sullied-his"-posts from marginmike, I can only say, that they have passed the limit for unfriendly and personal attacking. I do not think they impress on anyone on this list, rather the opposite. The whole logic of attacking and systematically criticizing one of the most interesting and acquainted informants on Nokia Corp. and European and Asian telecom industry and development on the Nokia list itself, is hard for me to understand. If someone offers you an awful lot of valuable and interesting information and opinion you first ask for, you should not get pissed off and start throwing a lot of shit on the person as soon as he does not share every view of your own. Or what ... And the "I-was-right-in-my-analyses,-and-your-where-wrong!"-thing is just boring, mariginmike. You could save others from a lot of bad feelings by thinking those things for yourself, rather than posting that competition-crap to the list. Everything above, IMO, of course. Joar

To: JohnG who wrote (4871)	5/16/2000 10:11:00 AM
From: joelnevison	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 34857

JohnG, you state Inefficient old economy companies are protected in the mistaken belief that it is somehow "good" to preserve workers jobs doing work better sent to third world countries. I disagree with you here. The trend of third world countries outbidding each other to see which one will tolerate the worst abuse of its citizens in unsafe sweatshops is appalling. This is a direct and predictable outcome of unrestrained competition. All this is done by faceless corporations whose financial and legal resources allow them more protections than citizens. Somewhere, someone has to step in and draw the line. The way some of the Europeans have done this may not be the best and it may ultimately fail against the prevailing trend. But...if the trend is not stopped, pretty soon the good ol' USA will be dropping worker safety rules just to get the business and our grandkids will be the ones in sweatshops. IMNSHO - Joel