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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Bill who wrote (80965)6/6/2000 7:13:00 PM
From: jlallen  Respond to of 108807
 
Ah. I always thought it was Mapplethorpe. Thanks for the correction. JLA



To: Bill who wrote (80965)6/7/2000 8:00:00 AM
From: Neocon  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 108807
 
There is an interesting aspect about a work like "Piss Christ", though. It is basically "concept art", that is, it has no impact unless you know what a crucifix is, and know that the fluid is urine. Unless you have a sense of the crucifix as having continued cultural power, for good or ill, it doesn't have much impact either, so in a wholly secular society, it would be a curio. On the other hand, the impact of seeing the photo is much greater than hearing about it, more vivid and immediate, like "oh my God, the bastard really did do it!", and therefore it has a sensual and situational aspect. Additionally, those that complain about the howls of the offended are somewhat disingenuous: if it were not controversial, it would be fairly meaningless..........



To: Bill who wrote (80965)6/7/2000 8:49:00 AM
From: Neocon  Respond to of 108807
 
One of the problems with judging works of art is that the historical moment passes, the culture changes, and things look different "in the morning". Something that was fresh and even revolutionary at one time may be copied so often as to seem a cliche by the time one gets to it, although it is the original. There is such a thing as an "aristocratic sensibility", loving the ornate and luxurious, and a "republican sensibility" which is more down to earth, austere, and plain. (I remember, for example, watching an interview with Francois Mitterand in his office once, where the roccoco that pervaded the place revolted me, not merely aesthetically, but quasi- morally, as ill- befitting the leader of a Republic). To a believer, or even sympathizer, a painting of a Crucifixion inspires awe, to others, it is an image of grisly torture merely. The Impressionists were avant- garde: instead of heroic mythological and historical subjects, or idyllic landscapes, which were the staple of academic painting, they painted cityscapes; the bourgeoisie at its amusements; images of modern change, like train depots; showfolk, bars, and cabarets. Instead of a "finished" look, they prized a certain improvisatory quality, that they fancied resembled more the image caught in a glimpse, or as a moment from a moving object. The were derided as vulgar, slapdash, and worse, especially when they played with convention, as when Manet painted to clothed young men on a picnic with a nude woman, a scene which, if taken from mythology, would not have shocked at all. Now, the Impressionists evoke, to most people, a quasi- aristocratic world of bourgeois affluence, or "arty" bohemianism, and are so thoroughly assimilated that one can barely comprehend that they were ever controversial.

One reason for learning something about art is to do one's best to understand the context, and recover some of the freshness of the various works, and also simply to avoid the additional alienation from the work that a wholly personal approach might engender. The associations are less arbitrary, the appreciation of the "signifiers" is fuller. How many people stand mutely in front of Annunciations with no idea what they are looking at? How many people have no idea whatsoever who the various mythological figures commonly painted in the Renaissance might be? It is difficult to appreciate the imagery if one has no idea what is being portrayed.........