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Politics : About that Cuban boy, Elian -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Lane3 who wrote (8027)7/3/2000 1:19:22 PM
From: X Y Zebra  Respond to of 9127
 
I think the religion thing is the least of Mexico's challenges right now.

Yes and no... it will depend how agressive the church chooses to be and how wide will the government open the door.

Do not underestimate the church.

users.skynet.be

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More....

mond.at

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10.1 Q: Are they a young and innovative part of the Church?

A: No. Absolutely not. They are extremely conservative. Within the Opus Dei changes are not allowed, as this would violate what they call "The Work's Esprit". They never change. The most innovative change they had since their foundation is that now woman are allowed to wear trousers! :) They where not even innovative when they where founded. What they present as new ideas: "That even lay people are called to a live of holiness" are not new but already in the teachings of Jesus. Contrary to ``Vatican II'' they still claim that they have the absolute truth and only they know what is good or bad. Lay people have no right to decide about religious things, but that we all have to blindly follow their orders. So their spirit is not new but the contrary: They want a Church of authority and of Doctrines instead of a Church of brotherhood of free people only responsible to their own conscience. The real youth of the Church today are the people who want to bring more democracy to the Church and spread the spirit of the Second Vatican Council.

10.2 Q: What is their position towards the ``Vatican II'' Council?

A: While they pick some things out of the text of the Council and also claim that they have contributed to Vatican II most of the spirit of the Council is totally contrarily to the teachings of Escriva. (Some points however clearly reveal their unholy influence on the text) Here are some snippets from the Text of the Council. ( rc.net e.g.:

Tolerance towards other religions:
In our time, when day by day mankind is being drawn closer together, and the ties between different peoples are becoming stronger, the Church examines more closely her relationship to non-Christian religions. In her tasks of promoting unity and love among men, indeed among nations, she considers above all in this declaration what men have in common and what draws them to fellowship. (...)
This is in total contradiction with the intolerance found in Escriva's teachings.
Charity:
... For this reason, love for God and neighbour is the first and greatest commandment. Sacred Scripture, however, teaches us that the love of God cannot be separated from love of neighbour: "If there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying: Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself... Love therefore is the fulfilment of the Law" (Rom. 13:9-10; cf. 1 John 4:20). To men growing daily more dependent on one another, and to a world becoming more unified every day, this truth proves to be of paramount importance. ...
Again this is in contrast to Escriva's teaching which separates the love of God and charity. Moreover:
Therefore, although rightful differences exist between men, the equal dignity of persons demands that a more humane and just condition of life be brought about. Excessive economic and social differences between the members of the one human family or population groups cause scandal, and militate against social justice, equity, the dignity of the human person, as well as social and international peace.
We see, the Christian Social teaching of the Vatican is indicative of a democratic and, even, some may say, socialist/ egalitarian perspective, in an extreme, contrary to Escriva's Fascistic ideas. Usually Opus Dei members denounce anybody who cares to much for social needs as being a Marxist.
Religious Freedom:
A sense of the dignity of the human person has been impressing itself more and more deeply on the consciousness of contemporary man, and the demand is increasingly made that men should act on their own judgement, enjoying and making use of a responsible freedom, not driven by coercion but motivated by a sense of duty. (...) However, men cannot discharge these obligations in a manner in keeping with their own nature unless they enjoy immunity from external coercion as well as psychological freedom.
Compare this with Escriva's talk about Obedience or take a look at the psychological manipulations they use.

10.3 They claim to be faithful to the Pope and the Catholic Church. Does that mean they can not be dangerous?

A: there are 2 points to keep in mind here:

1.) Maybe they follow the church. At least they claim to. But what if they manage to further increase their already great influence on the Church and the Pope and can infiltrate the whole Church with their evil ideology? What if they drive it towards more intolerance? What if a person like mister McCloskey makes the policy then? People are already afraid that their influence is already so great that the next Pope could be an Opus Dei member.

2.) I doubt that they would take "following the Church" all too seriously if we get a liberal Pope. Furthermore Carmen Tapia writes in her book that when she worked at the printing office of Opus Dei they had to change the printing plates with the text of the statutes of Opus Dei that had been signed by the Pope after they had been signed... and she also tells how mister Escriva often had angry words for the Pope. I am not sure if they would still falsify documents today. But a bit of misrepresentation of text as mister McCloskey does it with the Vatican II texts also helps them a lot..

11. Q: What is their ideal picture of a person?

A: If you look into Escriva's book you will find the kind of person that they want to make out of people:

He wants you to be become a fanatist who does not make concessions. A Warrior who blindly fights, instead of peacefully discussing with others. (#54, #393, #396)
Blind obedience. (e.g.: #62, #614), never think by yourself (#777, #856).
Feeling guilty for sexuality (#130). People who feel guilt are easy to control.
Heartless. You should lock your heart behind 7 gates (#150, #161, #188) and your heart should only belong to God, but of course he means that you should give it to the Opus. (fulfilment of duty #162). Best of all, in a sense, you should remove your heart totally (#166). ``Fortunately'' he not only demands heartlessness but also gives you a way to reach it: killing your emotions and your senses (#181, #188)
Without scruples! (#258, ff) (Do not ask me what this should have to do with becoming a saint - I have no idea. Being without scruples is like not listening to your conscience. Maybe this is just a mistake in the translation from the Spanish to the German version of the book - but it is the heading of a whole chapter. Maybe someone can enlighten me about that a bit.)
Selfishly searching for your redemption and your own happiness. (#297)
Beautiful, intelligent and looking down on others like they are only animals (#367).
You should be a perfect instrument. A tool to be used by them. (e.g. #484)
Secretly working behind peoples backs. (see the chapter about ``Discretion''

Opus Dei's fortunes in Europe have been less certain. The exception is Spain, where its political influence regained considerable potency after last year's electoral victory of the conservative José María Aznar. A devout Catholic whose wife is close to Opus Dei, Prime MinisterAznar's government is laced with Opus Dei dignitaries.

Opus Dei's political ideology has changed little since the 1950s when two of its leading strategists, Rafael Calvo Serer, a former director of the Spanish lnstitute in London, and Florentino Pérez-Embid, published their treatises on Opus Dei as a Catholic regenerator with worldwide reach.

They maintained that the emergence of a new Spain within the European Community presented a Godgiven opportunity to recreate a form of militant Catholicism initiated by Holy Roman Emperor Charles V in the 16th century. Charles V was known as God's viceroy on earth. His imperial policies brought Spain to the height of her creative success, but they also aggravated the European rift between Catholics and Protestants and ended up bankrupting the empire. Nevertheless he placed on Peter's throne two popes of his choosing.

Calvo Serer and Pérez-Embid reasoned that with galloping secularism overtaking the Westem world, the only way to revitalise Christianity was to resume the Catholic crusade of Charles V - not this time with the resources of a single nation, but through a powerfull and vital transnational Catholic movement, headed by Opus Dei. Like the Spanish empire of old, Opus Dei's new-look Holy League was to have large-spectrum antennae in Latin America and the United States.

Opus Dei's American influence blossomed during the Reagan administration. The prelature placed its agents inside the White House and recruited among the middle ranks of the Pentagon. Under Clinton, the situation is more ambiguous, with the exception of the FBI, whose director, Louis Freeh, is said to be a supernumerary (non-celibate) member. When asked for confirmation, Freeh declined to respond, having an FBI special agent reply in his stead. (The official FBI spokesman in Washington had never heard of Opus Dei.)

"While I cannot answer your specific questions, I do note that you have been 'informed' incorrectly," John E Collingwood stated, without giving further details.

However it seems that Special Agent Collingwood was himself misinformed, as Opus I)ei subsequently admitted that Freeh's brother, John, was indeed a celibate director of the Work's large centre in Pittsburgh.

In Belgium, France, Germany, and Italy, Opus Dei members are highly placed in the commercial and central banking sectors and within the government bureaucracy. Opus Dei was introduced to the Catholic aristocracy of Europe by former Queen Fabiola of Belgium, who is related through the House of Aragon to the Spanish Borbón family. One of Opus Dei's bitterest reversals occurred earlier this year when a Belgian parliamentary commission placed the organisation on a list of dangerous religious sects, proposing legislation to bring them under stricter control.

Opus Dei was handed another setback by the Socialist victory in France, where it has strong connections among the business establishment. President Chirac's wife, Bernadette Chodron de Courcel, although not a member, is a strong Opus Dei sympathiser. Under Alain Juppé, Opus Dei members held several important cabinet positions, controlling government policy on social communications, proposing legislation to repenalise homosexuality and playing a key role in the privatisation of TF1, a national television channel.


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To: Lane3 who wrote (8027)7/3/2000 1:43:54 PM
From: X Y Zebra  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 9127
 
More on the subject.

odan.org

At least Fox has been a state governor so he knows something about running a public administration

He is a capable man, he was Coca-Cola (Mexico) big chief, and I understand he also is no-nonsense guy... But you are right, it will not be easy.

The infrastructure is extremely deficient, in places non-existent. Cardenas (the other opposition party, [more in the lines of a Communist], is not as Charismatic as Fox is supposed to be. Fox seems to be more reasonable and comparatively, less controversial.

I think he should form some kind of coalition from both sides, be firm in his policies (particularly in respect to corruption and drug-cartel influenced politicians). He should not take a "witch hunt" attitude.

But I realize it will not be easy... many, including the Opus Dei, will attempt to influence him. Indeed, due to his close ties with organized religion, the Opus Dei will almost feel as their "god-given-right to attempt taking control of the government --Like Michael Caine said in that movie (which I still can not remember), advising the town chief in Medieval Germany... as he was leaving to another war, as a mercenary soldier he was...

"Kill the priest, he is your real enemy"

I had a big, fat, red Mexican papaya for breakfast this moring

Did you put lime on it ?



To: Lane3 who wrote (8027)7/3/2000 2:20:30 PM
From: X Y Zebra  Respond to of 9127
 
By chance... I found this, it is in Spanish... and it blew my mind (just the headline).

I guess the re-writing of history is not the exclusive domain of the creationists... hee hee hee

Can you imagine... today's Islam ~vs~ the soldiers of the Opus Dei... wow !

a sample... (small one)

webislam.com

webislam.com