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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: cosmicforce who wrote (84425)	7/28/2000 3:20:35 PM
From: Neocon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

The United States did plenty that was wrong, like condone chattel slavery in the southern states. We were discussing a particular issue. We were not on a crusade, which is why we could cooperate with Stalin against Hitler. We were securing our interests. We reacted reasonably to the ideology and actual behavior of the Soviet Union. If they were paranoid, it was because it was built into their ideology. After all, there were plenty of socialists who were not hostile to democracy. The comparison to Nazis is this: that just as the Nazis created enemies, and then persecuted them, so did the Communists. Other left wing parties tended to hate the Communists, because of their fanaticism and brutality. A lot of left wingers became Cold Warriors due to their experience with the Communists during the Spanish Civil War, or due to bad experiences elsewhere.......

To: cosmicforce who wrote (84425)	7/29/2000 2:02:38 AM
From: nihil	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

That's a comic misreading of American labor history. " The Reds were successful in this country due to the bashing of heads by anti-unionist Pinkertons. We screwed up in the handling of labor policy here - that opened the door to the alternative. There was a backlash against the Progressives and they were losing power. By the 20's the elitists had taken the throne. If you were a "peasant" of any color in this country, well tough. Work your long hours in substandard conditions and don't complain. Or our private security will smash your face." The Communists were never successful in US labor before the 1930's. The Norris-LaGuardia Act of 1932 essentially ended national injunctive relief for employers, and shifted the burden to local authorities -- many of whom were captives of local capitalists, but some of whom were friends and appointees of the workers. In places like Gastonia, communists were will to come and help the textile workers whom the AFL had refused to help. The murder was more or less divided evenly there. Some communists (like Harry Bridges and the ILWU were able to build unions and establish themselves and live out their lives despite frequent legal attacks. I knew Harry (we used to dine occasionally in a fancy bay restaurant (Orestes) on my tab when I was working maritime labor relations in the 60's for the Maritime Administration). He told me wonderful tales about Harry Lundeberg (another communist labor leader who later turned on him) which I was able to confirm in the files of the Pacific American Steamship Association. There were plenty of bad people on either side. I saw a 1948 letter in which Senator Taft said he would let Harry L. have his illegal hiring hall for the MCS-AFL if he would bust Bridges' MCS (expelled from the CIO. Unfortunately, my minox was out of film). It is generally known that on the waterfront you have a choice between communists and crooks. I much preferred the communists. My east coast colleagues had their lives threatened by thugs from the Brooklyn longshore (gangster) local. The MA said "too bad." Communists were also in control of UE, MMSW, UAW (until the Reuthers kicked them out), and the Fur Workers? The CIO pretty much cleaned them out. Communists had influence for years in Local 5 ILWU, the most powerful union in Hawaii. Jack Hall, another old friend, pretty much ran the territory, it was said. A really good guy, in my opinion -- a hero of democracy, actually, which is much more than can be said for the Big 5. But ILWU succeeded here because they got off their butts and organized everybody, not just Japanese or Filipinos. Ideology meant nothing. Money and freedom were everything.