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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: cosmicforce who wrote (85244)	8/11/2000 12:04:59 AM
From: jbe	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

Cosmo, I read a book some years ago about millennial cults in America -- specifically, about cults (like the original Seventh Day Adventists) that were into predicting the exact date of the end of the world. Each time the date was predicted, the believers would all gather at the place (usually a mountaintop), from which they expected to be "rapt" up to heaven (thus avoiding all the end-of-the-world messiness here below). And, of course, each time the end of the world failed to materialize on the date predicted. You would think that would discourage the believers, make them doubt their leaders' predictions. Not a bit of it! The curious thing is that these failures only reinforced their belief in the imminent end of the world. (So the date was a bit off, big deal!) Does that fit into your theory?

To: cosmicforce who wrote (85244)	8/11/2000 12:12:56 AM
From: Dayuhan	Respond to of 108807

That's probably true enough as far as it goes, but I suspect that it goes farther. The shamans and the tribal elders would be very well aware of the ability of certain types of behavior to disrupt the tribal unit. They would know, for example, that while whacking one's neighbors on the head, stealing their furs, or screwing their partners might all seem like immediately gratifying behaviour, all of them create dangerous dissension: it's hard to hunt the mammoth or defend against the tribe over the hill if your warriors are all bludgeoning each other. However, the elders would have no ability to impose physical sanctions on the young males (it's always the young males) who were most likely to indulge in such behaviour. The natural solution to this problem would be to threaten offenders with supernatural sanctions, preferably delayed ones that could not be verified. All thoroughly adaptive behaviour in the short run, but when the defense of "the normal model" starts suppressing inquiries and innovations that can benefit the group, the process becomes maladaptive. Eventually the tribe sees this, and reduces the functions of the shamans to a ceremonial level.

To: cosmicforce who wrote (85244)	8/11/2000 2:13:57 AM
From: average joe	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

comicfarce, what happens when the shaman is washed away?

To: cosmicforce who wrote (85244)	8/11/2000 11:13:25 AM
From: Frederick Smart	Respond to of 108807

Cosmic...... >>I have a theory about the evolutionary function of organized belief systems and zealots. When half the tribe is washed away in a lahar, the shaman is there to provide some explanation for why the normal model isn't working. When all the inputs go rail-to-rail, the shaman is there to provide imaginary constancy. By sharing the shaman's vision (even one that is totally unsupported by the obvious facts of the situation), the tribal unit is able to preserve trust in the old data model which contains a lot of still useful information in it (even though it just failed catastrophically). People don't lose faith and start to think that most of what they knew is wrong. The old model still explains most every day experiences, and the imaginary one of the shaman patches the holes in it by fitting the extraordinary into a rather ordinary, yet practical understanding of the universe. By turning the minds endorphine system on, ecstatic states of mind produce a calming and stabilizing influence on the tribal members. So in this sense, the belief is, quite literally, the opiate of the masses. The degree of the sedation is related to tribal stress levels. More environmental stress produces more imaginary belief systems. This is how evolution forces buy-in to an otherwise irrational and untenable situation. People are drawn together by the good vibe provided by the endorphines, rather than responding chaotically to a situation that is out of their control. But, this is just MY theory.>> Cosmic: Facts do not square with the ONE thing that drives everything: ENERGY. "Thinking" based on facts and logic does nothing to drive the one thing that supports everything: ENERGY. We have the logical/rational power of organizing bits/bites and facts, but there is still - on a moment by moment basis - a Grand Canyon leap of faith/belief that you must tap into to share th "wired" energy which lights up a room and attracts the support/belief and faith which is needed to make the energy of life flow. >>"People are drawn together by the good vibe provided by the endorphines, rather than responding chaotically to a situation that is out of their control. But, this is just MY theory.">> You are right on! They are responding to the "energy" - the light. Peace. .