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To: Dan3 who wrote (107570)8/15/2000 12:41:18 AM
From: semiconeng  Read Replies (3) | Respond to of 186894
 
Edge loss alone will account for at least 50 die. Cutting loss takes wafer area used by each die up to about 140mm2. Start at about 175 max for a perfect yield of whole chips from each wafer.

50 Die From Edge loss? HA HA HA HA HA HA HA. Whew That's a good one. 50 die out of 250.... a 20% loss. HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA.....

Whew, thanks, I haven't had such a good laugh in a LONG time. Good number spinning though Dan..... Good.... But WRONG. Any wafer that had an edge loss of 20% would be unmanufacturable

Now remember that it takes about a quarter to go from wafer to chip so Q3 output corresponds to Q2 production when wafer starts at Dresden were ramping up from 600 per week.

Sorry Dan, Wrong Again. It's more like 8 weeks. Of course, I could be wrong about AMD, they might be slower. Also You seem to be under the impression that all the chips shipped in Q3 were manufactured in Q2. Not so, it's a rolling process, not an "I made them in Q2, so I ship them in Q3". And by the way..... the 600 Wafer Starts you quote was what Dresden was putting out at the BEGINNING of Q2, April, to be exact. I doubt it stayed at 600 for the entire Q2 and part of Q3, as you seem to be trying to suggest:
semibiznews.com

So 1500 Austin + 750 (average) Dresden WSPW equals 2250 wafers per week times 175 times 13 weeks gives a max theoretical yield of 5.1 million and a final yield of 70% if they're going to sell 3.6 million chips this quarter.

Dan, Dan Dan.... Ya ought to work in politics, the way you spin those "Theoretical" numbers around. We've already determined that you Dresden estimates are WAY low, and you're still counting only the chips started in Q2, and not any of the wafers started in Q3. Nice try at twisting the numbers though.

Intel was getting up to 1 million die per week from a FAB that does 10K wafers per week and is pretty much dedicated to Coppermine. At 104 mm2 the wafer area used would be about 125mm2 to account for cutting losses and an edge loss of about 60 gives a max theoretical yield of about 190 die per wafer. So 10,000 times 13 times 190 is about 25 million out of which they got fewer than 13 million useable die (a 1 million die week was a big deal) and a final yield of less than 52%. And the bin split is lower.

Dan


It wasn't "Up To" 1 million per week, it was 15.4 million from 1 Fab in Q2. And do you have some evidence that Fab12 was at 10,000 Wafer Starts per week in Q2? I don't remember intel saying that any of the 5 Fabs were fully ramped, nor stating that F12 was "pretty much dedicated to Coppermine". I haven't seen that. Did you? My impression was that they were also running Cascades, as well as some "Other Products" there too.

Dan, I've got to hand it to you though, that was a good try. But if I had the kind of "reach" that you went through to make this argument, I could touch both top rims of the Grand Canyon........ From the riverbed.

Nice try though!

:-)

SemiconEng