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To: AK2004 who wrote (5293)	8/16/2000 7:01:55 PM
From: pgerassi	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 275872

Dear Albert: Re: classfying downbinning Typically it is ignored, except when rampant. Case in point is the current Tbird situation. Downbinning in any case simply shows that the picture may be better than what is seen. But revenues (and thus profits) come from what the chips are sold at. Downbinning amounts can be found from overclocking results and can easily be seen by sampling Slot 1 or A minus cases. The later has the correct core speed marked under the case markings. The low overclocks of the P3 933+ are seen as a force up the speed curve and probably will not have any downbinning occuring. Overclocking shows that the C2 probably has its true sweet spot just below that of the mainstream P3. Durons probably fall under the third type and seem to be just as fast as the Al Tbirds as far as clocks go. Tbirds fall under type 2 for the most part but many on the high end probably are actually type 3 underneath (mostly Cu Tbirds fall into this category). This cat and mouse game with Tbirds, P4, and by extension Mustang, makes it very difficult to ascertain which has a current true advantage. Based on my current admittedly restricted information, IMHO P4 will not outrun Tbird much less Mustang except for the standard Intel practice of hyping certain benchmarks specifically to show their CPU in the best possible light. When compared to on a apples to apples basis, Tbird runs faster than P3. Duron runs circles around C2. Mustang vs P4 is unclear at this point. BTW: After looking at Pricewatch, I noticed that Celeron II plus motherboard combos are now more expensive than same clocked Duron combos. In fact, you can get a 700 MHz Duron Combo cheaper than a 633 MHz FCPGA Celeron combo. With those speeds, Duron will smoke the C2 in all benchmarks. Pete

To: AK2004 who wrote (5293)	8/16/2000 9:12:28 PM
From: Petz	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 275872

albert, I have a simpler method for estimating the speed at which not many (maybe 15%) of the functional die can run successfully. It's the speed where there's a big breakpoint in price. Chips above that speed are so rare, that the manufacturer figures they might as well get as much as possible for them. Right now, P3-800 $321 P3-850 $486 P3-866 $512 (At thechipmerchant.com) Below 800 an extra MHz costs $1.00 or less, above 800 its over $3 per MHz. I say that means not many Intel CPU's run faster than 800. For Athlon's the price rise becomes steep above 900 or 950 with the new pricing. Petz