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To: mishedlo who wrote (55412)	9/26/2000 10:28:15 PM
From: mishedlo	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 93625

Speaking of prices, Carl or anyone have a comment on this post from the Breadman? Ignore the hype comment on the prices. Artie got me into looking into pricing again. I've been checking the RAM Price Index everyday, but have been slacking on Pricewatch. But here it is, read it and weep! gogocity.com In Stock, a Intel VC820 motherboard with 128MB PC800 RDRAM for $312.95 and free shipping. Well it's been all over the press that DDR motherboards WHEN AVAILABLE will be roughly $200 for the board. The memory PC1600 DDR will cost somewhere around $150 per stick. Add it up guys, RDRAM-system $312.95. DDR-system at roughly $350! RDRAM IS CHEAPER NOW and DDR isn't even available yet! THE GAME IS OFFICIALLY OVER! RDRAM has defeated DDR SDRAM. Forget about performance, an RDRAM system is LESS EXPENSIVE than a DDR system. Yes, processors are not included in this comparision, and AMD fans can say that the processors are cheaper which will make WHOLE system cost more competitive, but I'm just looking at the subsystems. Motherboard and RAM. Can we please get some quotes from Bert, Jack, and Sherry?!?! First, 6x, then 3x, then 2x, now... I think you know what. Put the baby to bed, this one is over! Just waitin' for the market to realize what's goin on in the BUS Station. Best Regards, the-breadman

To: mishedlo who wrote (55412)	9/26/2000 10:54:57 PM
From: Bilow	Respond to of 93625

Hi mishedlo; The prices charged by Crucial for those DDR sticks has nothing to do with spot, production or anything at all. Since they are selling into a restricted market, the prices don't mean anything at all, in my opinion. I think they deliberately set them relatively low in order to convince engineers that DDR would soon be very cheap. This is situation normal with new memory types. The memory makers are going to sell things for what the market will bear. But when they are talking to design engineers, they are all sweetness and light: "We plan on reducing prices blah blah blah blah." All they are doing is trying to convince engineers to use their high margin products. But engineers know this, and take it into account. Maybe they do it cause it might fool a manager somewhere. I can just see the engineer convincing management to go with DDR because Micron is already "selling" it at a 10% premium (or whatever) to SDRAM. (LOL!) Of course Micron is going to sell the first sticks at a high price. None of this really matters to a design engineer making a decision today. Even the motherboard guys know that their motherboards are not going to hit the big volume until mid to late next year. What matters is the pricing at the time that volume is required, and with DDR we are all pretty sure that it will be reasonable. Sure the early stuff will be expensive, but humans love new stuff, and will pay extra for it. Early production stuff is always expensive. That applies to both DDR sticks and the motherboards, as well as everything else in the Tech universe. Do you remember when CD players were first sold? Ouch! In other words, with the first DDR machines, all of prices, costs, and profits will be high for all involved. That is why they are falling over each other to get them out. The chipsets have been the gating factor, now they are being released by the manufacturers. Note that the manufacturers are releasing their DDR chipsets in order from smallest maker to largest maker. That is because the small guys have the smallest percentage of the marketing nest to foul by early release. There are plenty of people waiting for DDR motherboards (at least they post to that effect on message boards, and I'm waiting too), and those are lost sales for the soon to be obsolete equipment. AMD won't release the 760 until they have lots of stock, cause it will put a big dent in their sales of other motherboards. I'll publish a list of links where you can look up information, press releases, photos &c. on the DDR motherboards, organized by board house, after this post. -- Carl P.S. You don't have to sound like an engineer when you order parts. If you saw how easy it is to do it would amaze you. I have no doubt that decades after my retirement I will still be able to get free samples. Basically, it takes chutzpah, and just a little knowledge. Here is what you do: (A) Look up the exact part number for the DDR DIMM you want to buy. The objective here is to avoid looking like a total liar when you tell them that you work for a potential DDR customer. (B) It would be not unlikely that the actual contact from the purchasing company would be a procurement person instead of an engineer, and they, while familiar with part numbering systems &c., would not be able to, for instance, allow substitutions. So if they say something like "We don't have any of the ribbed variety, could you use one of the plain?", you can simply answer that you will have to ask the engineers. (C) It would probably be a good idea to ask for budgetary pricing for a reasonable volume at some time in the future. For instance, ask for pricing on 100, 200, and 300 units per quarter, starting in 3Q01. That should be enough volume to get their attention, but not enough for them to send someone out to see you at the plant. (LOL!) -- Carl