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To: epicure who wrote (1687)10/9/2000 6:59:25 AM
From: long-gone  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 10042
 
Don't YOU reallY find age 19 a bit OLD to be classified as a "child":

You want numbers?

rom: rpalmer@Think.COM (Ralph Palmer)Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: HCI Info. Sources, "Children" deaths by firearms
Date: 17 Aug 1993 18:18:12 GMTfrom the archives:
RKBA.015 - Are firearms a leading cause of death of children?
Version 1.1 (last changed on 91/03/15 at 12:21:18)DESCRIPTION
===========
In some recent and lurid accounts in the media, the claim has been advanced
that the "leading cause of death among children" is firearms. Some variations
of this claim state that is the "leading cause of death of young black males".
Well, this just does not sound right. In turning to factual sources, I am
hampered by not having information that is up to date as I like. However,
rather than wait, I have decided to post the information I do have, which
in terms of "completeness", is based on 1985 data.
I have checked 1990 data, which only gives death counts on a per capita
basis without segragation by age groups. However, there are NO significant
changes in the per capita ratios, which is a very strong indication that the 1985 figures can be rationally extrapolated.

As later information is available, I will update this posting.In 1985:
27,607 children (ages under 18) died.11,927 children died from all accidents.
6,639 children died in motor accidents. 1,613 children died by drowning.
1,249 children died from fires and/or burns.
1,445 children died from miscellaneous/other causes.
637 children died from firearms.
(429 children died from ACCIDENTS involving firearms)
(208 children (ages 14 and under) were murdered by firearms.)
An additional 888 "children" ages 15 through 19 were murderedby firearms.
The breakdown in homicides group in 5 year groups, and the group 15-19
spans what is clearly a child's age (15,16, and 17??), and ages that are
not children.SUMMARY=======
Of the 27,607 deaths of children (< 18) in 1985, 637 children died from
firearms (both accidents and homicides). Yet, ten times MORE children,
6,639, died in motor accident alone. THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO WAY THAT
FIREARMS EVEN BEGIN TO APPROACH BEING A LEADING CAUSE OF DEATH FOR CHILDREN!
Current (incomplete) 1990 statistics show that the percentages are still
the same (+- 5%).CONCLUSION==========
Firearms are clearly NOT, by any stretch of the imagination, a leading cause
of death for children (ages 18 and under). In facts, firearms are involved
(both homicide and accidents) in ONLY 2.3% of deaths of children.
===============================================================================
Deaths by age by major causes
S
P T A D U
O H C E F
P O C A D F F
U U I T R I P O
L S A D D H M D O R O C
A A L E E S O E W F B E F I A O
T N L A N T A N I U A A S T T
A I D T T O T I R R R L O I H
G O S H A R H N E N M L N O E
E N S L S G S S S S S N R
=== ===== ====== ==== ==== ===== ==== === === === ==== ====
<1 3,736 4,030 890 179 90 111 2 45 14 171 278
1 3,496 2,837 863 263 204 153 5 39 25 38 136
2 3,561 1,941 792 265 177 177 12 20 12 19 110
3 3,608 1,389 653 248 124 167 10 13 3 8 80
4 3,604 1,172 548 240 95 116 14 8 1 6 68
5 3,548 996 463 242 71 73 9 2 3 6 57
6 3,428 938 454 242 54 74 9 8 2 9 56
7 3,387 775 369 202 44 60 10 6 0 2 45
8 3,256 736 342 185 47 51 12 6 2 4 35
9 3,204 723 367 192 55 45 18 6 1 11 39
10 3,317 678 313 171 44 26 27 5 0 11 29
11 3,207 728 339 177 44 35 23 7 1 12 40
12 3,277 856 402 211 57 31 37 5 2 12 47
13 3,487 1,076 522 278 72 27 38 14 4 14 75
14 3,813 1,427 681 419 82 31 52 12 8 12 65
15 3,768 1,850 929 827 99 24 57 11 10 15 86
16 3,681 2,531 1,391 1,043 125 28 52 21 19 8 95
17 3,603 2,924 1,609 1,255 129 20 42 26 18 15 104
18 3,628 3,718 2,095 1,649 150 25 53 38 19 14 147
l9 3,872 4,045 2,178 1,708 123 37 37 36 33 14 190
20 4,052 4,144 2,168 1,646 t49 37 60 46 38 11 181
21 4,134 4,613 2,367 1,77S 137 53 51 56 54 21 220
22 4,169 4,601 2,168 1,584 142 50 52 45 75 17 203
23 4,250 4,698 2,144 1,537 156 51 32 48 66 13 241
--- ------ ------ ------ ------ ----- ---- --- --- --- --- -----
TOT 87,744 54,207 26,269 17,612 2,516 1446 755 543 491 309 2,597
TOT 62,981 27,607 11,927 6,639 1,613 1,249 429 254 125 373 1,445<18
Source for above: NSC88
==============================================================================
Murder by age group by weaponUniform Crimes
<--------------------- MURDER WEAPON ------------------------>
S
E N S U
F S X A T F
I C T O P R R F
R U A B P L C A O
T E T B B J H O O O N C E
O A T B L E A F I S F T G A T
A T R I A I U C N E S I I I L T H
G A M N N N N T D E O V R C E E E
E L S G D G T S S T N E E S D D R
===== ====== ===== ===== ==== ==== == == === == == == ===
<1 190 4 16 9 91 0 0 7 1 1 21 40
1-4 325 47 26 20 147 0 0 16 5 0 17 47
5-9 150 45 24 12 33 0 0 9 0 8 6 13
10-14 215 112 43 18 13 0 0 6 1 9 3 10
15-19 1,347 888 283 35 43 0 0 17 2 18 6 55
20-24 2,734 1,714 654 107 103 0 1 18 2 47 6 82
25-29 2,973 1,987 617 102 111 0 0 22 6 44 8 76
30-34 2,397 1,529 530 104 106 0 2 18 4 45 4 55
35-39 1,796 1,130 397 92 77 2 1 19 3 24 4 47
40-44 1,291 810 243 73 75 1 2 15 3 22 3 44
45-49 890 527 187 64 63 0 1 13 0 10 4 21
5O-54 686 364 158 62 55 1 1 13 1 11 0 20
55-59 613 340 134 62 32 1 0 6 1 11 2 24
60-64 507 242 109 56 46 1 3 13 0 10 5 22
60-69 363 159 69 45 37 0 0 14 0 15 9 15
70-74 260 98 54 36 27 0 0 8 2 12 4 19
>74 425 111 90 61 86 1 0 19 0 17 11 29
unknown 383 189 60 14 35 0 0 10 0 7 2 66
----- ------ ----- ----- ---- ---- -- -- --- -- -- -- ---
<18 1,452 580 226 76 303 0 0 47 8 25 47 140
>=18 15,710 9,527 3,408 882 842 7 1 186 23 279 66 479
Total 17,545 10,296 3,694 972 1,180 7 11 243 31 311 115 685
Source: UCR85-end---
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ralph Palmer |The opinions above are mine alone and do not
Thinking Machines Corporation |necessarily represent the views of my employer
245 First Street |----------------------------------------------
Cambridge, MA 02142 | "Even paranoid people have real enemies"
email: rpalmer@think.com |



To: epicure who wrote (1687)10/9/2000 7:09:12 AM
From: long-gone  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 10042
 
You want CONTEXT CONTEXT CONTEXT?
Now, going back to what we were talking about, you will see this quote from the article:

"Steven Trujillo, 18, was killed and Toby Rael, 19, and Thomas Bernal, 22, were wounded by Westfall’s gunfire. Rael and Bernal were arrested when they sought treatment for minor gunshot wounds at a Pueblo hospital. They were charged Tuesday with burglary and conspiracy to commit burglary."

You will note that the death of this young robber falls into the CDC guidelines of "children murdered" by firearms as did the one only wounded! When they walk into the homes of old people to rob them, they should no longer be classified as "children" if they are over age 15-16!

Message 14531625