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To: pater tenebrarum who wrote (30489)	10/23/2000 2:01:47 PM
From: Jack of All Trades	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 436258

To play the devils advicate, what happens if said spoo buyer(s) was covering a short position. I think the manipulation is a continuous cycle, as there are heavy sellers pushing the market down, also. I can remember a conversation with Defrocked where as GS and MER (I think) were taking turns selling Spoos. That turned out to mark a bottom as they could have been buying the index on the way down??

To: pater tenebrarum who wrote (30489)	10/23/2000 2:14:15 PM
From: Oblomov	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 436258

New Moto report: piraz.com The number of ways in which the banking and financial systems have been utilized to generate such large sums of money, credit and investment certainly make it appear as though someone either wanted or needed support of that nature. It's my belief, however, as I related here two weeks ago, there was a measure of desperation involved. The following is a brief example of a rarely publicized feature of U.S. domestic financial and investment growth over the past six years. Mr. Moto keeps getting better and better.

To: pater tenebrarum who wrote (30489)	10/23/2000 2:40:47 PM
From: chic_hearne	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 436258

no-one would seriously put in orders like that on their investment merit. who would then? Are you suggesting that some big player is "taking one for the team?" Somebody is risking losing big money doing this. IF you're talking about some kind of organized manipulation, that is doomed to failure also. IF "they" agree to prop up the markets, all it takes is a few players to go against the others and use it as an opportunity to get out at the others expense for the plan to seriously unraveling. Eventually, there would be a rush to the exit. In any scenario of trying to prop up the markets, I see it doomed to failure. Market forces are much more powerful than any form of manipulation and if people want out, they get out. The ONLY thing that can stop this is when lock limits are hit and trading STOPS. At best, the most well executed form of manipulation could only delay the inevitable. I see more of what's going on now as denial, not manipulation. Until people get tough love for buying the dip on days you are referring to, they will continue to do so and make money at it.