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To: Charles R who wrote (15591)	10/23/2000 3:26:53 PM
From: combjelly	Respond to of 275872

RE: Dresden and 0.13 micron Well they already have a Leff of 0.10 micron, it can't be that much of a step to go to 0.13 micron. I would think it would be more of an issue of shrinking and verifying the masks, and I suspect that you won't see this until after the Mustang cores wander onto the scene. So late Q1/early Q2 or so? Intel is a different story. The first silicon of Tulatin you are talking about, was this out of a production fab or one of their lab lines? There seems to be a big difference, look at how long it took AMD to get production copper.

To: Charles R who wrote (15591)	10/23/2000 3:39:58 PM
From: pgerassi	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 275872

Dear Charles: You forget that FAB 30 was equipped with 0.13u in mind (Just check on the messages during construction on the original thread and AMD CCs). AMD has produced 0.10u chips in the lab, getting it production worthy takes a lot of time. Since none of their existing fabs has 0.13u equipment and none is copper, where did they produce Tulatin? Where have they been running test runs in an eventual production facility (Given the diatribes of Paul, Elmer, and others, copper requires a totally separate FAB due to contamination problems)? Is Intel then, dropping its Copy Exact FAB rampout strategy? They need at least one line in full production status before they can start making more under that rule. Given the ramp up of the 1GHz P3, and the original Coppermine, meaningful quantities of 0.13u will take 3 to 4 qtrs on a well known process which copper, for Intel, is NOT! Cu will take Intel longer. How much longer is the question. As for penetration of the corporate market, Athlons are sitting in many corporate systems outside the US, and in a few 2nd tier systems here in the US. There is at least one corporation that is using Athlon (Just look a few posts back), so your statement must mean 1st tier OEM corporate offerings and SOHO does not count. Also Athlon was introduced in June 1999 which is less than 1.5 years ago so, your statement is just plain wrong. Are you so certain it can not possibly be in a 1st Tier OEM Corp system by late December? BTW, where is the quote of 2.4GHz from Intel? Intel was "comfortable" with 2 speed grades above 1GHz P3 (so far, 866 is the last normally clocked P3, 933 is still derated temp wise) and we all know how that turned out. Pete

To: Charles R who wrote (15591)	10/23/2000 5:04:48 PM
From: pgerassi	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 275872

Dear Charles: Re: "Kryotech is a "don't care" for mainstream market unless the cooling can be done for about the same cost a heat sink." With the current price differential between 1.2GHz Tbird on 760 DDR mobo and PC2100 memory and the supposed cost of a 1.5GHz P4, heatsink, 850 mobo, and PC800 memory, the cost of a Kyrotech case over a P4 case will still give a pricing advantage to Tbird. The performance of the 1.6GHz Tbird will far outshine that of the 1.5GHz P4 and according to you, MHz sells. I think that performance sells, not MHz, to those at the high end (high end gamers, workstation users, and number crunchers). Either way, AMD wins. Pete