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Politics : Formerly About Applied Materials -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Cary Salsberg who wrote (38746)	10/25/2000 1:38:17 PM
From: michael97123	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 70976

Cary, Your an old fart like me. Riling up these guys eh! Thats what we all majored in back in college, arguing 101. Were you a Trotskyite back then? Beat being a Stalinist. There are alot of Ayn Rand types out here(most dont recognize her name). They have no compassion for anyone and think uncontrolled capitalism is a good thing. I want to harness that greed for good purposes. Works better than big government solutions imo. Great Society proved that to me long ago. With that in mind give me a reason to vote for Gore. I think Bush is stupid and that troubles me. (Dont make that the reason though). I would be interested in your answer. Mike

To: Cary Salsberg who wrote (38746)	10/25/2000 1:49:23 PM
From: Proud_Infidel	Respond to of 70976

OT, Cary, I don't believe most people are "decent" folk. 20th Century history doesn't support a "decent" folk theory, and the 21st Century is not changing things much. I could not disagree more. Most people, not only in the US but worldwide, wake up every morning go to work, and try to do the best they can for their families. We see violence and the worst in human nature on the 11 o'clock news every night because the news reports abnormal behavior, that which deviates from the norm. We do not get to see the endless good works done by many in every country throughout the world because there would never be enough time to show it all. I believe in people so much I think because I have seen destitution and yet the decency and humanity remained in the majority of people. I would suggest a trip to a place outside of the US, where cynicism in politics, the media, and people in general is not so pervasive. I would also suggest that you live in communities in poor countries in Africa or India/Nepal before elaborating on your theories. You insult the majority of the world's people who do a miraculous job of just feeding and schooling their children day in and day out. I have been to these places and can say firsthand that your theory is wrong on so many levels. Brian

To: Cary Salsberg who wrote (38746)	10/25/2000 2:00:22 PM
From: Pete Young	Respond to of 70976

OT sort of.. 20th Century history doesn't support a "decent" folk theory, and the 21st Century is not changing things much. How true, Cary. Speaking of such things, our beloved stockmarket seems to be a mechanism for conveying wealth from those in a weaker economic position to those in a stronger position. Our society's emphasis on the stock market for retirement and savings, is evidence how nasty and desperate IMHO we have gotten. Rather than an indication of our strength, the stock market, as presently constituted, shows how weak we are. I just wonder if Alan Greenspan isn't in fact, our version of Gorbachov. Something parties on the right forget, is that markets without any regulation are inherently unstable. Boom and bust. Unfortunately, under the prod of global competition, we have moved towards more volatility, removing more and more of the sureties (housing, jobs, community) required for people to build their lives on in the last 30 years. Boom and bust is great for speculation (provided you are on the right side of a trade), but not so good a platform to build lives on. A certain amount of instability is necessary for the creative destruction of the technological revolution of our time, but too much may even kill off the "New Economy". I wonder just how much instability people will put up with before there is a backlash? Not that backlash=solution, either. History shows that backlash isn't a solution, but makes the problem worse...look at Russia's 1917 revolution against the barbaric "free" markets of the turn of the century, or the Third Reich's answer to the failings of the Wiemer Republic (free globalized markets of the time)-or possibly Putin's Russia as a response to the failed free markets (free globalized markets of our time) advocated by the US. I believe that the backlash against the global instability we all are witnessing (and probably feeling today) has probably already started, and it started last fall in Seattle. Neither GW or Gore are even close to addressing solutions...both want to make conditions worse, when I believe what we really need a time-out---but, I also believe that what will actually happen is acceleration.