To: Jdaasoc who wrote (58929 ) 10/26/2000 4:18:29 PM From: jcholewa Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 93625 > Which drives obsolense of memory, price or performance is a very good argument. > I would have to believe price is more important than performance in this case since > no one is seeing more than 10-15% improvements in performance with DDR. I might challenge that assessment. Going from PC133 to PC1600 -- a speed grade which has better bandwidth but worse latency than its predecessor -- performance in SysMark and Quake increased by 8 and 10 percent . We have yet to see scores of a PC2100 -based system with a processor and chipset that supports the full 2.13GB/s memory (just like, for example, we have not yet offically seen benchmarks of a system with DRDRAM that can handle its full 1.60GB/s bandwidth). I'm not asserting that we'll see these 10-15% performance increases with PC2100 memory over PC133 memory, mind you. I just wanted to note that we've currently been limited to seeing the following combinations: A) Athlon with PC1600 because there is no 266/133MHz chipset compatible version of the Athlon and the AMD760 is synchronous . B) Pentium III with PC2100 memory such that the chipset is limited to the bandwidth of PC133 memory. Once again, this is not a claim or a prediction that DDR SDRAM performance will be great. I'm merely saying that we haven't seen the PC2100 SDRAM with 2.13GB/s chipset example which will be (fairly shortly) announced by AMD (and I'm making no promises here towards availability -- it's recently become standard operating procedure among almost all tech companies to make availability come several months after announcement; AMD's been pretty good in spite of this in the current year, but I presume nothing here). Additionally ... if PC2100 SDRAM offered a 15% performance boost over PC133 SDRAM: Well, it would be fairly spectacular. To give you an example, a speed grade boost from 0.90GHz to 1.00GHz offers about a 5% performance (according, for example, to AnandTech's recent 1.20GHz Athlon benchmarkfest). That's 5% for an 11% boost in cpu speed. A 15% across the board improvement (and, once again, this is a theoretical discussion and I am in no way actually positing that this is the advantage for PC2100) for general office apps and games and soforth might be equivalent to a 35% boost in cpu frequency, or more since performance scaling is sublinear (er, that's not exactly the word I'm looking for, but you know what I mean). This would mean that, under this totally hypothetical scenario, an Athlon-1.00 with PC2100 memory could outperform an Athlon-1.30 with PC133 memory and might even come into the ballpark of an Athlon-1.40 with the slower memory configuration.15% performance improvements for the new memory type would be awesome. 10% improvements would be damn good. 5% would be nice, but nothing to cry about and would need to be similar in price to the memory it is replacing. BTW, a techish question for those applicable: HWP (hardware prefetching ) appears to help latency , possibly drastically, at the expense of bandwidth . It is my speculation that the i840 's supposed "prefetch cache" was a large factor in the specfp boost over i820 , since the prefetch could utilize parts of the extra 1.6GB/s bandwidth to decrease the effective latency in the memory subsystem. Continuing on this speculation, I think I'm asserting that HWP would be a little bit more of a benefit on systems with DRDRAM than on systems with SDRAM , as the former is said to have a higher latency and, in the case of the i850 , a higher peak bandwidth. Does anybody have interesting comments about this? -JC