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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: E who wrote (86897)	11/6/2000 3:46:36 PM
From: E	Respond to of 108807

My remark about the ability of Palestinian parents to keep their daughters home, while proclaiming their helplessness to reporters to prevent their sons from participating in the rock "throwing," (those slings they whip around their head make the rocks into projectiles adequate for hunting game, actually) refers specifically to the "honour killing" phenomenon. Here's one case in which a 15 year old girl was forced to marry a man because she chatted with him without a male chaperone : "Focus (3): Palestine/Israel "Honour" killings are also regularly reported in the Palestinian territories of the West Bank and Gaza Strip. In the Canadian women's magazine Chatelaine, Sally Armstrong described the fate of one victim: Flirting was a costly mistake for Samera. She was only 15 years old when her neighbours in Salfeet, a small Palestinian town on the West Bank, saw her chatting with a young man without a male chaperone. Her family's honour was at stake; a marriage was quickly arranged. By 16, she had a child. Five years later, when she could stand the bogus marriage no longer, she bolted. In a place where gossip is traded like hard currency, and a girl's chastity is as public as her name, Samera's actions were considered akin to making a date with the devil. According to the gossips, she went from man to man as she moved from place to place. Finally, last July [1999], her family caught up with her. A few days later she was found stuffed down a well. Her neck had been broken. Her father told the coroner she'd committed suicide. But everyone on the grapevine knew that Samera was a victim of honour killing, murdered by her own family because her actions brought dishonour to their name. ... Here in the West Bank, the Palestinian Authority law allows honour killing. Samera's parents are walking the streets of their neighbourhood with their heads held high, relieved that the family honour has been restored. (Armstrong, "Honour's Victims", Chatelaine, March 2000.) Twenty-two other women died in the Palestinian territories in the same year as Samera...." gendercide.org Here's just one more citation that suggests the power of families to control their children's behavior when they desire to: "Antonelli, A., ‘Crimes Not Stories’, Palestine Report, May 22, 1998, 22-24. This article traces the work of the Women’s Centre for Legal Aid and Counselling in the Palestinian West Bank on the issue of violence against women. Although the number of women killed in the name of ‘honour’ remains hidden from official statistics, research carried out by the Centre indicates an annual rise in killings. The restoration of ‘family honour’ through the murder of young women is not considered unusual social behaviour within Palestinian communities... Women activists face an uphill struggle whilst existing legislation serves to protect men who kill in the name of honour... " www1.umn.edu I just kind of figure if there were a will to keep the sons away from danger, there would be a way....

To: E who wrote (86897)	11/6/2000 3:46:57 PM
From: Gregory	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 108807

It is a very complicated issue. To make a peace on the Middle East does require superhuman efforts and almost miracle. The stone throwing is not anything new. Just look in the US newspapers. I do not remember the date, but I have seen pictures in San Diego Union. One---- a 10 year old child waving a palestinian flag from behind the fence. Another side of the fence an Israeli soldiers with automatic weapons. Another picture a 13-15 year old palestinian child learning how to use automatic weapons. Then a year or two ago when there was an event where US was shooting at some targets in IRAQ. The picture was about how women in IRAQ surround some kind of castle or something in IRAQ and are telling the story that they will protect Sadam Hussein with their bodies against american bombs. Then I remember somewhen in 1960th there was a chinese campaign on a Soviet border (island Damansky). That was a dispute where at that time China with Mao Tse Dong in charge was claiming that the land on another side of the river Ussuri belongs to China. Chinese have sent the foot soldiers to cross the Russian border and in front of them tens of thousands of chinese women and children. And these women and children have not been realy made to go and die under the gun. But just brainwashed enough to go and sacrificed their lives. And on the Soviet side guns, good weapons and tanks. Guess what has happened? What I am trying to say is that technique of using women and children to achieve the political and military goals is not anything new. Also I remeber very good from the school years that one of the main doctrines of the bolsheviks strategy and revolution was that "to achieve your goals" you should not hesitate in what means you choose. Also, before the collapse of Soviet Union a lot of people from the 3rd world countries have been trained in Soviet military training camps. The training was not only in weaponry but also in ideology etc,etc, etc. Some of the oldest surviving palestinian leaders received this training. I would not be suprised to see that some of these people that at one of point of time have been just in military now are political leaders. And are using the propaganda techniques to the middle level Palestinian military leaders. Also, does anybody knows the story about how in the beginning of World War II in 1939 there was an interesting thing. A bunch of Polish soldiers have crossed a German border. All these soldiers have been killed. After that the german military have crossed the border into Poland and this is how the World War II started. Much much later it was found that soldiers that have crossed the border have not been really Polish soldiers??? So, do not jump with conclusions so fast about how unhuman Israeli's actions are. Maybe it is really cowards that are making children to wave a Palestinian flag in front of Israeli soldiers. Do not forget that between these Israeli soldiers are many that have lost relatives in the war or maybe bombings. Just think about it. What if behind these children are cold blooded murderers? Why is it that as a response to unrest, some of the palestinians that have been in prisons have been released? Dont you think it is kind of dangerous for palestinian politicians to anounce that they want to make peace with Israel? Do you think people that are against this policy will hesitate to exterminate the complete family of such a politician, reporter or just a cuvilian? You think they would not do that? They are not really that concious about the lives of the children that wave the flags in front of israeli Soldiers. Do not jump so fast with conclusions. Do you know that revolution in Russia has won with really very little blood? But there was an extensive propaganda campaign for many years in different levels of Russian society? Military, intelegensia, peasantry, working class people, students, minorities, etc,etc. For many many years. And then there was no real fighting protecting Russian Tzar? There was women batalion protecting the winter palace against revolutionary bolsheviks. The soldiers climbed ove r the iron gate and occupied the Winter Palace with less than 20-30 people killed on each side? That was the Great October Revolution. This is what a good propaganda machine is. And basically it was internal Russian matter. In the Middle East all countries in the world are waching the events. And a lot of people are brainwashed by very good specialists. Sometimes much better than phychologists that help in making cigarettes advertisement. With the religious concepts at theit disposal. How about that?