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To: DownSouth who wrote (7849)11/9/2000 7:26:48 AM
From: tekboy  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 22706
 
What could the voter do? "Umm, sir, could you give me another ballot? This one confused me."

actually, yes. some did that, and got a new ballot. So part of the problem was shyness or total cluelessness on the part of the voters, no question about it.

Most recent news on the recount below; this could get interesting... And get this: New Mexico's results are now being challenged, and the electoral votes there could be switched from Gore to Bush. If you give those to Bush along with Oregon (likely), and FL to Gore (possible), the race gets still closer...

ctb/A

Bush Lead Narrows as Florida Recount Continues

By DAVID ROYSE
.c The Associated Press

TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (Nov. 9) - The recount of presidential balloting in Florida was to resume Thursday just hours after disputed Palm Beach County results came in and helped Al Gore trim 843 votes off George W. Bush's lead in the presidential race.

Vice President Gore gained 1,189 votes Wednesday, compared with 346 votes gained for Bush. With 32 of the state's 67 counties finished their recounts Wednesday, that meant Gore cut Bush's lead by more than half, leaving Gore 941 votes behind the Texas governor.

The recount was triggered by state law because Bush led Gore by less than one-half of 1 percent. State officials expected to finish by the end of the day Thursday.

The world was watching Florida because its 25 electoral votes will decide the winner of the presidential cliffhanger.

Allegations of voting improprieties surfaced late Tuesday and throughout Wednesday, ranging from missing and confusing ballots to problems with tabulations and voter intimidation.

''If there are concerns, let the process work,'' said Gov. Jeb Bush, the younger brother of the Republican nominee. ''But don't overexaggerate things.''

Throughout the state, Democrats and some voters complained of irregularities in the election.

In Palm Beach and Osceola counties, Democratic Party lawyers and voters said ballots were confusing because of their configuration. Officials in Palm Beach announced 19,120 ballots in the presidential race were tossed out before they were counted because more than one candidate was picked. Only 3,783 voters made that mistake on the U.S Senate portion of the ballot.

''That total is a high number,'' said Palm Beach County Commissioner Carol Roberts, who is part of the canvassing board that is conducting the recount.

In Miami-Dade, Broward, and other counties, the Gore campaign complained about delays in the delivery of ballot boxes to counting places.

Democrats set up a toll-free number where Florida voters could report irregularities.

Jesse Jackson and NAACP President Kweisi Mfume said they received complaints that blacks had difficulty voting. Jackson said some voters were told there were no more ballots, or that polls were closed.

Jeb Bush said he has seen no indications of fraud. But Mfume called for federal marshals to oversee the ballot recount and asked the U.S. Justice Department to investigate.

The latest Florida totals before the recount, including all absentee ballots that had been received, showed Bush with 2,909,135 votes and Gore with 2,907,351 - a difference of 1,784 in a state with 8.75 million registered voters.

Even as the recount proceeded, elections supervisors waited for an undetermined number of overseas ballots, primarily from military personnel and their families. The state counted about 2,300 overseas ballots in the 1996 presidential election and allows 10 days to count them, as long as they are postmarked no later than Election Day.

Because of his vested interest in the outcome, the Florida governor recused himself from the panel that will certify results of the recount.

The other members of the panel, Secretary of State Katherine Harris and state elections director Clay Roberts, are also Republicans. But the state's top Democratic official, Attorney General Bob Butterworth, expressed confidence that the recount will be fair.

''All of us recognize the importance that every vote is correctly counted,'' Butterworth said. ''I can also assure the rest of the nation that there's no way Gov. Jeb Bush or Secretary of State Harris would certify election results ... if they had any doubt at all that the election was not in perfect order.''

Democratic Party officials and hundreds of voters complained about the way ballots in Palm Beach County were arranged. Voters punched holes in the middle of the ballot, while candidates were alternately listed to the left and then the right.

''It was virtually impossible to know who you voted for,'' said Mark Hirsch, a 30-year-old business executive who voted for Green Party candidate Ralph Nader.

Some Gore supporters in Palm Beach County said they feared they mistakenly voted for Reform Party candidate Pat Buchanan. Gore carried the county by more than 110,000 votes, but the 3,407 votes for Buchanan were by far the most of any Florida county, and almost 20 percent of his total vote in the state.

Republicans noted that the ballot was approved by Democrat Theresa LePore, the county supervisor of elections.

''The ballot was laid out within accordance with the statute,'' said Roberts, the state elections director. ''That's a voting system that's been in use for many years in many counties.''

In each Florida county, votes were recounted by a three-member canvassing board made up of a county judge, the chairman of the county commission and the local elections supervisor. In Miami the recount was broadcast on public access television.

AP-NY-11-09-00 0506EST



To: DownSouth who wrote (7849)11/9/2000 10:24:32 AM
From: Mike Buckley  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 22706
 
What could the voter do? "Umm, sir, could you give me another ballot? This one confused me."

Yes. That's exactly what the voter should do.

I hope someone doesn't call you absurd when your 80 years old, realize that you not what you used to be, and someone hands you something really important that everyone else in the US seems to have no trouble with, but you f*ck it up.

I need to clarify my statement about absurdity. It's absurd if someone who doesn't have the capacity to drive an automobile safely gets behind the sterring wheel and turns on the ignition. I realize that the individual doing so may be in a special situation in which others need to lend a helping hand to convince the person s/he shouldn't be driving, but the fact that a person incapable of safely driving a car is doing so is in my opinion an absurd act. Similarly, the same goes for the act of voting twice on a ballot. For me, there is a subtle but distinct difference between an absurd act and an absurd person (that requires explaining which unfortunately I did not initially offer).

I hope someone doesn't call you absurd when your 80 years old ...

Remembering the context of my above explanation, I never called anyone absurd. That doesn't mean the act of voting twice on the same ballot isn't absurd.

The ballot's absurdity caused confusion.

To call the ballot absurd is in my thinking an overstatement. Just because something is not as clear and immediately evident as it might otherwise be doesn't put it in the category of absurd. If that ballot is absurd, in what category would you put the IRS income tax forms?

--Mike Buckley