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To: Sun Tzu who wrote (39395)	11/9/2000 8:55:13 PM
From: Cary Salsberg	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 70976

OT Experts: Palm County Lawsuits Have Strong Legal Basis Reuters Photo By Gail Appleson, Law Correspondent NEW YORK (Reuters) - As the drama of a presidential vote recount in Florida played in every town and city in America, lawsuits challenging the results in one key county could lead to an unprecedented order for a new vote there, legal experts said on Thursday. Law professors specializing in Constitutional and election laws told Reuters the cases filed in Florida court are particularly compelling because the state's laws allow challenges to election results if there is evidence the wrong person, through irregularities, somehow received more votes. There are at least two suits filed in state court by Palm Beach County voters who allege a confusing ballot caused them to mistakenly cast thousands of votes for Reform Party candidate Pat Buchanan (news - web sites) instead of Vice President Al Gore (news - web sites). The ballot used in Palm Beach County was the only design of its type used in Florida. Just 3,400 votes were cast for Buchanan in the county, far more than he received in nearby counties. But these votes mattered in a race so close that the winner of the U.S. presidency hinges on a recount now being conducted in the entire state. Fewer than 1,800 votes separated Gore and Bush, and the winner will take Florida's crucial 25 electoral votes, giving him the 270 needed to gain the White House. Gore said on Thursday he would back the legal challenges. Double-Punched Cards In addition, democrats also say 19,000 votes in Palm Beach County were invalidated because the ballot design prompted voters to double-punch their cards voting for both Gore and Buchanan. Elizabeth Garrett, a professor at the University of Chicago Law School, said that Florida law allows the outcome of an election to be challenged if it can be shown that another person other than the real winner had been chosen. She said the Palm Beach voters have alleged they mistakenly voted for the wrong person because of the ballot design. ``They do not have to make allegations of fraud or that the confusion was intentional. It is not required by the statute,'' she told Reuters. ``People can vote wrong all the time. But the question here was whether this was systematic and it appears that it was,'' she added. ``It looks like something was seriously wrong.'' Joseph Little, a law professor at University of Florida in Gainesville, agreed the suits contain a plausible challenge on grounds there was a significant problem in the ballot design. ``I see no reason why it could not be the basis for invalidating the election,'' he said. Allegations of a pattern of polling station irregularities were so rife in Florida that U.S. Attorney General Janet Reno (news - web sites) also said on Thursday that she would review a request by the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People to investigate reports that there had been discrimination against blacks at some polls. The NAACP said that black voters were turned away at one Florida polling place because of an alleged shortage of ballots, some received inoperable ballot cards and others were disqualified by election officials who claimed their race did not match official voting records. A Violation Of Hard-Won Rights Randolph Scott McLaughlin, director of the Social Justice Center at Pace University in White Plains, N.Y., who joined with the NAACP in seeking the probe, said he expects federal suits will be filed alleging that individuals' constitutional rights were violated because they were prevented from voting. ``A federal court has tremendous power to step in and order a new election if there were widespread abuses and a pattern of discrimination,'' he said. ``It's an extraordinary remedy but we are in the midst of a Constitutional crisis.'' Even if any challenges succeed, it is unclear whether a new election could be held before members of the Electoral College cast their vote on Dec. 18. It is also uncertain what would happen if the electors vote with lawsuits pending. If that happens, Yale Law School Professor Bruce Ackerman said, ``It would put a cloud on the legitimacy of the process.'' ``The only remedy that makes sense is to the redo the election in the precincts where the ballots were confusing,'' said Laurence Tribe, a professor at Harvard Law School. ``A new election could be held very quickly if the court acts quickly.'' He said even if a new election could not be held before Dec. 18, the legal challenges could lead Congress to delay the Electoral College vote.

To: Sun Tzu who wrote (39395)	11/9/2000 9:06:02 PM
From: ELH1006	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 70976

Sun Tzu, but isn't the populous vote skewed by the states of New York and California? Take these two states out of the numbers and Mr. Bush ends up with over 51.5% of the vote. Isn't this the precise reason as to why we have an electoral college system.

To: Sun Tzu who wrote (39395)	11/9/2000 9:15:40 PM
From: Jerome	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 70976

On Topic for a change. AMAT..... The post election debate is detracting attention from AMAT and other semi-equipment stocks for the moment. This situation is likely to continue for the next ten days or so. (right past AMAT's earnings ) Now is the time to write some covered calls on AMAT, NVLS, KLAC, TER and any other favorite semi. They would expire next Friday and little movement is expected in these stocks until Florida makes its decision about the election. Jerome

To: Sun Tzu who wrote (39395)	11/10/2000 9:19:23 AM
From: willcousa	Respond to of 70976

It is wrong to say that 120 votes flip the outcome. Nearly 100 million votes flip the outcome. Or the vote of all the winner's electors flip the outcome. The vote is what it is once the recount plus absentee votes are certified according to state law. Fla. then allows redress in the case of fraud, which neither candidate nor his surrogates has yet alleged. (Note careful wording by the principals) You could recount Fla. 100 times and the odds are that you could not get the same numerical result twice. That is the imperfection of dealing with a large amount of data. Given this, you have to stop somewhere and go on to the next phase.