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To: Gary Ng who wrote (116812)	11/10/2000 9:37:47 PM
From: Scumbria	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 186894

Gary, "Fraud" and "unlawful" have completely different meanings. Daley was just saying that the ballots did not comply with the law. He did not say that there was any intent to defraud the voters through the ballot design. Scumbria

To: Gary Ng who wrote (116812)	11/10/2000 10:14:19 PM
From: Amy J	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 186894

Hi Gary, RE: Florida There's actually a rather big difference between fraud and "unlawful." I believe fraud gets handled by the Federal gov't (Janet Reno). Janet Reno had passed this matter on to the State of Florida after initially determining no fraud existed. Florida law was violated because the ballot was drawn in a manner which is unlawful according to FL law. I don't know if this implies a revote will occur. Windsock covered this point in a post: Message 14775308 To: GVTucker who wrote (116605) From: Windsock Friday, Nov 10, 2000 10:43 AM ET Reply # of 116824 GV The required Form of a General election Ballot (votes on the right, vertical alignment of candidates)is shown in Section 101.191. leg.state.fl.us Electronic Ballots "(2) The ballot information shall, as far as practicable, be in the order of arrangement provided for paper ballots." Section 101.5609 leg.state.fl.us In every country except Palm Beach the presidential candidates were vertically aligned with the mark on the right. So the vertical alignment instead of the butterfly is "pactical". The vertical alignment of the parties in the order of votes received in a past election is required by law and was communicated to the county voting officials in a letter. The order is R's then Dem's then somebody. The placing of Buchanan in the the #2 slot on the butterfly ballot also violates Florida law' The test under Florida law from a 1998 FL Supreme Court case is 1) substantial irregularities 2) that are material and 3) there is reasonable doubt that the will of the people was expressed. If this test is met then the courts may order a remedy including a revote. The legal test is the reason that you see the Dem's talking about the "will of the people". The words were not just coined by a speech writer. Message 14776423 To: Elmer who wrote (116645) From: Windsock Friday, Nov 10, 2000 11:59 AM ET Reply # of 116825 Elmer - "Why is it that you didn't post this part?" Read the part about 1) vertical alignment and 2) the order of the parties? Right or left is not an issue that I raised. Section 6 says nothing about vertical alignment. ----------------------------------------------------- Here's a news article on it: cnn.com The court order said the ballot was designed and printed in such a way that voters were deprived of their right to freely express their will. ------------------------------------------------------ Regards, Amy J