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To: upanddown who wrote (79158)11/16/2000 7:45:21 AM
From: kodiak_bull  Read Replies (4) | Respond to of 95453
 
John,

Your response in essence answered part of my question which I will restate in (borrowed) poetical form:

Breathes there a man (a Democrat, that is)
With soul so dead
Who never to himself has said
These actions in South Florida
By Bill Daley and his cronies
Are just plain wrong?

Obviously, uncomfortable with the election question, you chose to go off on a tiresome tirade containing most of the old canards and some of the Gore speaking points from Debate #3.

As for the economy and stock market doing better, traditionally under the Democrats, one has to keep in mind that we often have alternating parties in control of the Executive Branch, and the party coming in generally inherits the benefits, and the detriments, of the work of the one before. In 1969 the Republicans inherited not only the domestic turmoil of the country but also LBJ's Vietnam frolic, financed through future inflation and recession (stagflation) that left RMN floundering in his attempts to deal with an irresponsible government who had spent the next generation's money on war materiel and lives in a hopeless ground war. Who can forget the days of Phase I, and Phase II? Or Gerald Ford's Whip Inflation Now buttons? Thank you, LBJ, you irresponsible buffoon.

In 1980, RR inherited the gravity defying stock market and economy of Jimmy Carter (Interest rates at 20%!!), the national malaise and, oh yes, who can forget, the MEOW (the moral equivalent of war--wasn't that turning your thermostat down to 52 degrees, wearing a sweater and drinking hot tea?). There have been 3 great presidents in the 20th century, imvvho, TR, FDR and RR. There have been 2 totally inept presidents, Hoover and Carter. There have been 3 totally corrupt presidents: Warren Harding, Richard Nixon and Bill Clinton. Of these last three it is probable that Nixon was the most flawed, but Clinton makes it close to a dead heat.

As for what a true Republican program would do, since we haven't had a Republican president, Senate and Congress since 1952, we don't really know, do we?

Despite what the propagandists write, Clinton inherited a great economy in 1993, one which was coming strongly out of recession and poised to do well no matter who was at the controls (assuming we believe that the President is, in some way, at the controls). To his credit (jointly shared with a Republican Congress which controlled his worst ideas), the Clinton/Gore regime, for all its moral turpitude, or perhaps because of it, saw fit to let Greenspan and Rubin guide the economic ship of state well.

This is neither the place nor the time to debate whether or not the toppling of the Soviet Empire, through peaceable means, the reduction of tax rates from over 50% to our current system and the subsequent explosion of enterprise, wealth (yes, that's a dirty word, John) and jobs was worth the cost, but the election map in 1984 was a pretty clear indication of the nation's vote of confidence.

I'm glad you credit Clinton (and that guy who invented the Internet) with paying down the national debt. I'm sure that will be news to all the wealthy who, under a fairer tax regime, have been more than willing to shoulder more than their fair share of taxes for the last 20 years. Actually, the Republican Congress had an awful lot to do with keeping Clinton on the reservation (National Hillary Health?? Excuuuuuuuuuuse me!) in terms of economic policy.

However, not all is right with the world as we speak, and W, if he is the next president, will have to deal with the hangover of the current overextension of the economy and the current severe debt binge. He will be well advised to take the economic medicine early, even if it is a recession in his first term. It may be his only term in office. And when the bad economic times roll in due to the infamous Y2K liquidity infusion and the tech bubble, it is certain there will be people like you, John, who pop up and say, "See what I'm saying about the Republicans and the economy?"

As for the Democrats, first off they should be required to change their name, as they do not really believe in democracy. They prefer to have appointed officials (judges, mostly) go beyond their constitutional role (to interpret laws) and actually write new laws based on their personal feelings. This is the activist judiciary, as we know it. Democracy is about trusting the people to govern themselves, through their representatives. It may not be the prettiest form of government, and certainly it can take a legislature a long time to come to the "right" set of laws on any number of areas, but the way we know they are, finally, the "right" set of laws, is that they are the product of self government.



To: upanddown who wrote (79158)11/16/2000 10:49:59 AM
From: Meridian  Respond to of 95453
 
John, I think you attribute too much to who is actually president. Presidents are figureheads. You are soley responsible for your life. Now presidents can make it more difficult to succeed, but not impossible. Republicans espouse a more laiz faire attitude that allows people to thrive - they remove impediments, like weighty taxes. Political parties don't thrive - people do.

Reagan spent wildly on defense, knowing that the Evil Empire would try to match his spending cent for cent, or more specifically ruble for cent. He counted on the fact that Russia/communism would crumble if that happened. He was right. Many people that were liberated from communism in Russia think Reagan is a hero. He also cut the top tax rate from 72% under Carter to 28%. 72%! Talk about demonizing a class of citizens. Republicans know that some people get where they are by busting their asses, and further, that it is not the Government's money. It's the people's money. Hard earned at that.

Which is a nice segway into the Democrats. Democrats see social problems and try to fix them by spending on a Program. And to do so they raise taxes. Unfortunately, people often take advantage of the particular program, and this fosters laziness and dependence amongst them. Coincidently, Gore's platform fortifies that. Maybe not the laziness part, but the dependence part. He takes credit for the great economy and vows that it will continue if he's elected. What a crock. He's a figure head. The state of the economy is not up to him.

He scares Seniors into thinking that they might actually lose their benefits unless he is elected. That absolutely would not happen if Bush were elected, but facts don't matter. The means justify the end. And the End is Power. Gore doesn't care about scaring Seniors. He doesn't care that a whole bunch of people are worried to death that if Bush wins they will be in real trouble.

Gore demonizes the "richest 1%" of the population and charges that a disproportionate amount of Bush's tax cut will go to them. Well, Duh. Of course it will. The richest 1% ($250K and up) pay a disproportionate amount of the taxes, so in an across the board cut a higher absolute amount will go to them. Democrats distort this fact and play on class envy. Look up the definition of Demagogue. Sounds familiar eh?

Anyone who is in the top 10% or anyone who ever has designs on being there someday should be very afraid if Gore wins. Mitigating this risk somewhat is the Republican majority in the House and a razor thin one in the Senate.

Despite your argument, Presidents are not singlehandly responsible for Debts and Surpluses in the nation. It depends on the economic cycle as to whether we have one or the other, and we've already established that Presidents aren't responsible for the economic cycle. The next President will preside over a Recession or at least a severe slowdown, regardless of what cheerleaders like yourself believe.

In addition, empty platitudes like "putting big business ahead of people" are classic Democrat phrases. (See aforementioned Defn. of Demagogue). John, what does that phrase actually mean? Really. Democrats and other "victims" use it all the time. Give me an example or two, because I really can't see any cause and effect. 50% of the US population own stocks. So are these 50% collaborating with Big Business? If Republicans offer tax breaks to these businesses do the benefits not go back to shareholders?

I often wonder how the Democratic party stays so powerful. But I don't have to think too hard about it. It's because America is full of people who depend on the Gov't for handouts, and it's because people are often so busy in daily routines that all they listen to are soundbites from Demagogues/liberal media. This leads to phrases like: "I voted for Gore because he's for education." "I voted for Gore because he's for the environment." Right. (I knew Bush shouldn't have run on that anti-environoment, anti-education platform.) These phrases don't mean anything, but that's the way Democrats scare people. They try to make people dependents, and apparently it works.