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Politics : Al Gore vs George Bush: the moderate's perspective -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Hawkmoon who wrote (7004)11/21/2000 4:25:46 AM
From: GUSTAVE JAEGER  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 10042
 
Re: Those fanatics who believe that gun control is effective have only to look towards Switzerland, where all males are REQUIRED to maintain an assault rifle and ammunition in their home until they are beyond the age of required reservist status.

That's correct. But note, however, that law doesn't allow Swiss citizens to carry their assault rifles in the street, or even in their cars. It's one thing to have a firearm owning permit, another to enjoy a firearm carrying permit --the latter is usually granted to police/military officers, bodyguards, etc. only. I don't know the details of the Swiss law but in Belgium, even if one holds a firearm owning permit, one must carry his/her firearm in the trunk --even a handgun has to be in the trunk, not in your inside pocket or your glove box.... The law somehow reflects the relationship between the people and their firearms: firstly, in most European countries, all the firearms must be registered with the police. Secondly, Swiss reserve officers don't keep their assault rifles to protect themselves against thieves, burglars, or any other "enemy within". The Swiss don't view their gun ownership as the symbol of their liberty but merely as a subsidiary franchise that is part of their military duty --no trigger-happy feelings here! Theoretically, unrestricted gun ownership for every Swiss male citizen is aimed at a foreign threat so that, on M-day, the Swiss army can startle into action in two ticks --but then again, there's no anti-UN jitters here, since UN HQ are located in Geneva already....



To: Hawkmoon who wrote (7004)11/21/2000 8:32:22 AM
From: long-gone  Respond to of 10042
 
Ron,

If there is to be a Presdient Gore, he dare not ask the military to come pick up the guns:
Overseas Military Personnel: 'We Got Ripped Off'

(CNSNews.com) - Around the world, the buzz on U.S. military bases includes criticism of Al Gore and the Democratic Party, for challenging 39 percent of the overseas absentee ballots cast by military personnel. Tuesday's Washington Post quotes various military personnel as being disgusted, angry, and disappointed that their votes may not count. "Everybody's talking about it," an army paratrooper stationed in Italy told the newspaper. "We got ripped off." The newspaper also spoke with various political and military experts, one of whom said that if Gore is elected president, he would "start with the worst civil-military relations of any president in recent memory." Other observers note the increasing partisanship of the military, especially among its officers. They say the military increasingly acts like a Republican-affiliated interest group.
cnsnews.com Military Personnel: 'We Got Ripped Off'



To: Hawkmoon who wrote (7004)11/21/2000 10:20:55 AM
From: KLP  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 10042
 
'Hell busting loose' over ballot denial


Tuesday, November 21, 2000

ELECTION 2000, Day 15
'Hell busting loose' over ballot denial

Senator seeks defense secretary's help on absentee disqualifications

by Jon E. Dougherty

worldnetdaily.com

The chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee has asked Secretary of Defense William Cohen to help ensure that all military absentee ballots be counted in the state of Florida, even as Americans, military members, veterans and other lawmakers express outrage over the disqualification of those ballots in some Florida counties.

Following the disqualification of 1,400 military ballots from overseas military members by a few county canvassing boards in Florida, Sen. John Warner, R-Va., in a letter sent Friday to Cohen, called the dismissal of these ballots a "matter of grave concern."

"Our service men and women around the world are protecting the very freedom that allowed our nation to proceed with the election on Nov. 7," Warner wrote. "Yet it now appears that some of those service personnel may be denied the right to have their votes count in that election."


Sen. John Warner, R-Va.

Of particular concern to Warner, the letter said, are county-level decisions by election officials in some Florida counties to throw out absentee ballots "which do not bear postmarks, although these ballots were received in the voter's state by the deadline set by state law."

Though Warner admitted that some overseas ballots "regrettably" did not include postmarks -- and that such postmarks are "explicitly required by Department of Defense directives and should have been affixed" -- the Senate armed services chief said the failure to include postmarks on those ballots was the fault "not of the voter but of the military postal clerk" who received and then shipped the ballots.

As chairman of the Senate committee, Warner said, "I am deeply distressed that our soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines may lose their votes through no fault of their own."

Specifically, Warner has called on Cohen to observe the provisions of the Uniformed and Overseas Citizens Absentee Voting Act, 42 USC, 1973ff (et al) under Subchapter I-G,

Under those provisions, Warner said -- which express "a strong federal policy to facilitate absentee voting by military personnel" deployed overseas during an election -- "states are required to permit such personnel to use absentee registration procedures and to vote by absentee ballot in federal elections."

Warner said the provisions point out that absentee registration and voting procedures include, "if necessary, the use of a uniform federal ballot," and that "such ballots are to be carried in the mail 'expeditiously and free of postage.'"

He added that those ballots "may be mailed at post offices established outside the United States, including ... the military postal system (39 USC -- 3406).

"In the Act," Warner continued, "Congress recommends that the states assure that absentee ballots are mailed 'to absent uniformed services voters ... at the earliest opportunity' and 'expedite processing of balloting material with respect to absent uniformed services voters.'"

Since before the Nov. 7 election, many U.S. military personnel have complained that they did not receive their ballots, even though they had requested them in plenty of time and through the proper channels.

After WorldNetDaily's initial stories, Florida Rep. Joe Scarborough called for a congressional probe into whether "something was done to inhibit [the military's] ability to vote." Also, a San Antonio, Texas-based law firm is preparing to file suit in federal court in the western district of Texas on behalf of military personnel who claim they requested absentee ballots for local and national elections but did not receive them.

"As Secretary of Defense," Warner said, "you have the principal responsibility for implementing the provisions of the Act.

"Clearly the intent of both Congress and the Department of Defense is that every effort shall be made to handle absentee ballots as rapidly as possible and in accordance with the applicable law and regulations," Warner wrote.

Though "not all military mail clerks" ensured that ballots were postmarked, the Virginia Republican said, "Capt. E.M. DuCom, USN, the deputy director of the Military Postal Agency, clearly confirms that human error -- as well as time and operational constraints -- results in some mail not being postmarked."

Warner said he believed Cohen would agree that "the unique constraints faced by the military, and the failure of some military postal clerks to follow regulations, should not be allowed to disenfranchise members" and their families.

"These voters have put themselves in harm's way in the defense of the nation and the rights of its citizens, including the right to vote," Warner wrote. "It would be unfair, unjust if the failure to imprint a postmark, through no fault of their own, deprived our service members and their families of the right to join in choosing the leaders of our nation."

Warner implored Cohen to be "consistent with applicable ... law" and "join me in urging all of those entrusted with doing the final counting of those ballots to resolve such technical questions equitably in favor of" military members.

After the Florida absentee ballot count was completed, unofficially, Texas Gov. George W. Bush's lead over Vice President Al Gore grew to 930 -- a figure that could well deteriorate in the face of multiple recounts in just a few Florida counties, some of which have disqualified hundreds of military ballots already.

Nationally, there is growing anger and resentment towards the Gore campaign, Democratic operatives in Florida and some canvassing boards in the Sunshine State for rejecting the military ballots.

"All hell is busting loose among the citizenry of my town as to the treatment of our sons and daughters in uniform," one writer from Bulverde, Texas, e-mailed to WorldNetDaily. "They had better right this wrong for the sake of all of us and our country."

"Gore knows the military hates the Clinton-Gore record," said another e-mail. "Gore is teaching us right off the bat how his administration would work. The way he is acting, nothing short of a revolution in this country will stop him."

"What is this country coming to when they don't recognize all of our military?" wrote another. "Their vote is important no matter what election is coming up."

One activist, former Naval Reserve Commander Chip Beck, has even called on veterans who are Bush supporters to fly the U.S. flag upside down "until further notice ... even if it means four years."

Other Republican legislators have been less inclined to believe, as Warner does, that military postal clerks simply forgot to postmark ballots in particular.

On Saturday, Rep. Spencer Bachus, R-Ala., issued a statement calling for "serious and detailed consideration" of the military ballot issue.

"I personally plan to pursue every avenue possible to highlight this unjust situation and see that culprits responsible for this scandal are dealt with at the highest level," he said. "This matter cannot be allowed to stand unchallenged."

Bachus added, "Given the concerted Democrat Party effort to throw out as many military absentee ballots as possible in the current Florida vote count ... certainly no decent American would challenge the inalienable right of our soldiers, sailors and airmen to have their voices heard in the choice of their next commander in chief."

Rubbing salt into the military's voting wounds was the release of a 5-page letter by Tallahassee lawyer Mark Herron, circulated by the Gore team throughout Florida, with detailed instructions on how to disqualify an absentee ballot -- including a section on postmarks.

In response to this firestorm (one-time Clinton adviser David Gergen, interviewed on Larry King, reportedly called it a possibly fatal error by Gore), vice presidential candidate Joseph Lieberman called for a review of the policy in favor of the military absentee voters.

And Florida Attorney General Bob Butterworth, a supporter of Vice President Al Gore and Democratic elector, has now advised counties that they "should count" overseas ballots, even if they bear no postmarks.

"No man or woman in military service to this nation should have his or her vote rejected solely due to the absence of a postmark,'' Butterworth said in a letter to the state's 67 counties, according to the Associated Press.

Related stories:

Military missing absentee ballots

Bacon denies WND military ballot report

Will Congress probe military ballot snafu?

Military anguishes over missing ballots

Lawsuit over missing military absentee ballots

Intrigue, mystery surround military ballots



To: Hawkmoon who wrote (7004)11/21/2000 1:21:47 PM
From: long-gone  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 10042
 
ron,
we've been talking here about the effects on the market if one or the other wins, one would think if Bush were to win we might be able to short Krispy Kream to tears, as our nation will no longer be a POLICE STATE!

Whattya think?