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Politics : Electoral College 2000 - Ahead of the Curve -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Ilaine who wrote (4805)	12/5/2000 7:44:29 AM
From: Don Pueblo	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 6710

There is an interesting mechanism that I have heard some people make mention of over the years. It's kinda like 'if you want it so much that you will sacrifice your honor, integrity, and morals to get it, you will NEVER get it because you are sacrificing your honor, integrity, and morals. The moment Al sued his own people when they decided to not do a recount, I knew he had stepped over that line. The result of his dementia was that Bush attorneys were defending Democrats in a suit brought by Gore! Katherine Harris' attorney, Mr. Klock, is a Democrat...so it turns out that he is defending a Republican who is involved peripherally in a legal suit brought against other Democrats by the Democratic candidate for president. It's too convoluted to be understood unless you base it all on the presumption that Al Gore will do literally anything to get things to come out the way he wants. And I personally don't want that kind of person to be calling the shots for me. (And I mean "shots" literally.) I wish the Democrats would put Warren Christopher back on TV to explain Gore's plan for the coming days. Here's the statement I believe he should make: It would be unfortunate for Mr. Gore if, after the law was followed and President-elect Bush moves into to the White House, the ballots that were rejected by the counting machines because they did not meet the requirements for a valid vote in three heavily Democratic counties in a state where the popular vote in the entire state did not go our way were to be examined by hand by people who applied some new criteria to them which was designed to divine the intention of the voters who failed to actually vote properly and submit valid votes in the first place, and those new votes our people found where there were no votes before were enough to show that had the rules been different at the time of the election, and if we had a partial, unfair, biased, more subjective, and less accurate recount of some ballots, Al might eventually win the state maybe if we keep adding votes using the new rules until we finally get one more vote than President-elect Bush had in the first place, and if that we can pull that off, we could then claim that President-elect Bush would be illegitimate.

To: Ilaine who wrote (4805)	12/5/2000 9:51:48 AM
From: TraderGreg	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 6710

<<I can't remember the name of the fellow that brought down Joseph McCarthy, but I remember what he said: "Have you no shame, sir? Have you NO shame?" >> It was Joseph Welch, one of the Attorneys for one of the accused: "Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? Have you left no sense of decency?" Interesting sidebar on that. McCarthy and his two closest investigators all died relatively young and/or painfully: McCarthy died at 48, of alcoholism His lead attorney, Roy Kohn, died of AIDS in his early 60s I believe. His junior staffer was assassinated in 1968 in the Ambassador Hotel in Los Angeles, after just having won the CA Democratic Presidential Primary. I'll bet few of you conservatives knew that anti-war, liberal Robert F. Kennedy was actually a fanatical anti-Communist. TG

To: Ilaine who wrote (4805)	12/5/2000 9:28:08 PM
From: Raymond Duray	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 6710

Hi CB, Memory is a funny thing. It can change over time and it can become fuzzy. I vaguely recalled the words of Joseph Welch, the attorney for the Army in the Army-McCarthy hearings, so I had to look them up. Unless they've been modified for effect here on the Internet, as is so very often the case with the likes of the Drudge Report, the Washington Times and Las Vegas Sun, among other propaganda founts, this is what was said: historictrials.freeservers.com The salient line is not, as you recalled, "Have you no shame, sir? Have you NO shame?" Rather, it is "have you no decency?" And I would say that in the case of Mr. Gore, that he does not in any way seem to me to be any worse an actor than his opponent. Mr. Gore has requested hand recounts in Florida. Mr. Bush has requested hand recounts in New Mexico. Mr. Gore did not fight Mr. Bush in New Mexico, whereas Mr. Bush is fighting tooth and nail in Florida. Who is it that is the decent man as regards to our most important right as a citizens of the United States? I.e. the franchise. Mr. Gore, who wants votes to be counted and doesn't prevent them from being counted, or Mr. Bush who is doing his level best to make sure that a standard, plain vanilla procedure isn't carried out in a close election? If Mr. Bush can take away the votes of 10,000 Floridians in this election, what are other men bent on taking away the right of American citizens to vote going to do in the future? This is my fear. I think we need to step back from all the fancy maneuvering in the courts for a moment and ask what is important here. To my mind, it is the (hopefully) inalienable right to vote for those who would govern me. But I agree with Ray, Gore would not do a good job of bringing the country back together. And I think it is because he has shown himself not fit to govern. I don't think I see a logical connection. I stated that I thought Mr. Bush would do a better job of healing the wounds that this country feels. I also feel he is unfit for the job of Presidency of the United States and I'm gratified to see that he has stepped aside in order to let Mr. Cheney run things. However, of the two candidates we've been permitted to choose between, Mr. Gore is vastly more capable and qualified to run a Federal administration. I simply could not allow your assertion on this matter to go unchallenged. I realize you dislike Mr. Gore intensely. That doesn't make him unfit, however, just not to your liking. Best, Ray :)