To: cosmicforce who wrote (4177 ) 12/6/2000 12:50:57 PM From: Greg or e Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 28931 Morning Cos Just a note before I chain myself to the wheel.So, I'm going to convert from my naturalistic philosophy that embraces love, compassion and joy for what reason ... ? Right off the top of my head I would say, such a naturalistic philosophy covers only half of life. What does this philosophy say about things that are wrong or evil? What possible basis can it provide for Truth and purpose and meaning to this life? Is it simply arbitrary when it chooses love, compassion and joy? for what reason ... ? What reason indeed, There is no good reason to choose those over say, hate, cruelty and sorrow. In a strictly utilitarian sense whatever works, in the grand scheme of things is by definition right. So if killing all the Jews furthers the ends of the German people then it is not really wrong. On the other Hand, only if a personal, moral, creator God, truly exists, can we have an absolute basis for love, compassion and joy. Steve compares God and His justice, to a heartless landlord who can't wait to chuck defenseless widows and orphans out into the snow. On the other hand, you "wouldn't let my son get nailed on a cross". The truth of the matter is that God's justice cannot be ignored because it is part of His nature just as much as is His love. Although Jesus was sent by the Father to die on the cross, He (Jesus) did it willingly, not because he enjoyed it but because of an incredible love. You might not let your son go to the cross, but I suspect you might die for one of your kids. That is what any parent worthy of the name would do. The amazing thing to me is that Jesus dies not for His kids who love Him, but for enemies who hated Him. Now that's compassion! Back to mudslinging for me. Have a good day Greg