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To: Roger A. Babb who wrote (4077)12/10/2000 5:42:00 PM
From: Pete Mason  Respond to of 19633
 
>> And our country belongs to the poor and uneducated just as much as it does to you. Read the inscription at the Statue of Liberty. Each person is entitled to one vote, not like a public company where wealth determines your number of votes. We are one nation with equality for all... <<

C'mon guys, aren't we making mountain out of a mole-hill (no disrespect to moles intended!)?

Mr Burns simply made the point that poor and uneducated people have statistically tended to vote along certain lines... nowhere was he proposing they be disenfranchised!

It's fun to blast away a straw man with homey platitudes, but in this case it's all a bit off base...

-- Pete

P.S. "Mr Burns.." "homey" ... get it?? :-)



To: Roger A. Babb who wrote (4077)12/10/2000 5:50:18 PM
From: Tom Hua  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 19633
 
For what it is worth, I read that over 60% of those holding phd degrees voted for a candidate other than Bush.

Roger, I haven't seen that statistics. On a smaller sample that I'm familiar with, you're right on. All my colleagues hold PhD degrees. A random sampling of the 95 PhDs in the division I'm a member of, I'd say about 60% voted for Gore. Most would have voted for McCain had he been nominated by the Republican party.

CMB's extreme view is very narrow-minded, to put it in the most polite terms.

Regards,

Tom



To: Roger A. Babb who wrote (4077)12/10/2000 9:15:13 PM
From: who cares?  Respond to of 19633
 
(ot) Let's get back to trading pwease.

Elitist eh. Yes you're correct, I am of the elite almost anyway you want to slice it. I'm way up in the upper 90 something percentile in smarts and wealth, I can hit a golf ball as far as Tiger Woods(though only about 1 in 10 are as straight), I can ride a bicycle 100 miles when I haven't sat on my ass and ate donuts for 6 months, I can drive practically any motorized vehicle known to man impossibly deep into a corner and make it stick out of sheer force of will, and I am God's gift to women. To put it bluntly I am better than the tired, the poor, and the huddled masses.

Do I want to sick starving dogs on em and hose em down. Hell no. I want to see them educated, I want to see them have a chance to make something of themselves. Notice, I said of themselves. I didn't say I want to make something of them, they have to want it, I just want to see that they have as good a chance as possible to make something of themselves. To me the liberal solution has always been to take from the wealthy and give to the poor. That's disgusting to me. It's disgusting now, it was disgusting when I was broke as a joke. What this policy winds up doing is teaching people they don't have to work. They can be lazy and make more money than work some scummy job. It eats away at their self-respect, robs people of their dignity, and will to stand up and fight for themselves. It virtually keeps them enslaved, and it teaches their children that it's acceptable and a fact of life, there is no hope or surely there parents would have hoped it.
The conservative solution has always been, go out and work. There's always jobs, and they always suck, but it's a start. There are ways to get an education. People don't have to watch network TV at night, there are classes to take, books to read, second shift jobs to get. America is the land of opportunity, not the land of sure thing.
Example. I live near Fort Smith, Arkansas or more to the point Fort Chaffee. You've probably never heard of it, but I bet some Vietnamese readers have. When Vietnam fell, many Vietnamese people gave up everything they had, got on a boat or a plane, left a land where they had family ties going back thousands of years, all for a chance at keeping their freedom in a distant land. Many of the refugees were processed through Fort Chaffee. Many of them settled in Fort Smith. These people didn't protest or groan and moan they just went to work and worked hard. They worked some of the sheeetest jobs known to man, mainly in the poultry industry, gutting chickens. They might have been somebody back in Vietnam, but here they were all the same, they didn't speak the language, the locals didn't like the "gooks," they didn't have anything, but they could work. Many of them worked two and three jobs to get by. How did they get these jobs? Simple, no one else wanted them. The white trash here would rather sit around the house trailer drunk or wasted rather than work some demeaning job like that. After a few years the Vietnamese were able to trade up to better and better jobs, many started there own businesses. They didn't go into debt getting a house they couldn't afford with a couple of autos payments trying to keep up with the joneses, they tended to live inside their means. They had children that worked after school jobs, they had children that studied at night instead of partying, they had children that became National Merit Students and went to great colleges, and got great jobs.
Meanwhile the white trash keeps cashing a gov. check, beats on the wife, kicks holes in the trailer walls, goes from growing dope to running crank labs, raises children that are having babies by the time they're 13, that have never worked a day in their life, nor have they ever seen their parents work. Of course they resent "those damn chinks that come over here and make it big, it's just not fair, what makes them so special."
Wanna know who's working those chicken gutting jobs today, now that the Vietnamese have largely bettered themselves? Think the white trash finally caught on and are willing to work. Nope, now illegal Mexicans do it. White trash still sees it as beneath them, wouldn't pay much more than the govt. check, so now this area is one of the fastest growing illegal immigrant areas in the country.

I can even give you a more personal view of this. Ever read Grapes of Wrath? The Joad family started out from a town not too far from me. They make a car into a truck, throw everything they have on it, and head out for the land of milk and honey, California. Instead they find people waiting in bread lines and working for near nothing. Well my grandad made a car into a truck(Hudson I think), and he and his best friend put most of their belongings they hadn't sold on it and sat out for California. His brothers and parents would have went but they were too busy getting drunk off home squeeze.(prohibition you know) His wife and baby daughter, as well as the other guys wife, lived in a none to fancy dump until he could get to Cali., and get settled.
He to found bread lines and lots of people pissing and moaning. He didn't have time for that, he had to make some money to get his family moved. He took a shit job digging a drainage ditch, then from there got a job working on a guys ranch, and finally wound up in a factory. Him and his buddy sent for the wives, they all shared a shack of a place and they saved their money. My grandad was a bricklayer by trade, and he finally got work doing that and wound up doing very well for himself as a housebuilder. The other fellow worked factory for 30 years, retired to Oklahoma bought a nice little farm.
Now if my grandad had been paid not to work, chances are he would have never had the guts pack up his whole world and go where there were supposed to be jobs. When he got to California if he'd spent all day in a soup line or protesting he wouldn't have found the job he did, and if he hadn't found that job he wouldn't have found a better one, and so forth.

I'm not at all racist or elitist, anyone that would read that into any of my comments is really a twisted POS. I state a fact. A few people can't handle it and call me names, start trotting out statistics that aren't germane, etc.
Fact is, Gore's party gets the votes of the poor and the stupid, because Gore's party gives handouts to the poor and the stupid. This is the ultimate in elitism to me. I'm above those people so I will ease my consious by giving them something for nothing. Liberals that promote this, rob these people of their self-respect, and their will to succeed and exceed.

Someone made the point that everyone had the right to vote. Gee I must have missed where I said otherwise. There's no laws banning any race from voting, no must own land or be a male provision in this country, damn right we all have the right to vote, as we all should. BUUTTT "to vote" in many places in Florida, meant you had the right to go in, poke out a hole in a piece of paper, pull this piece of paper out of the "machine" look at it to make sure there was no hanging chads, or unpunched holes, then slide that ballot into a ballot box turned the right way. All of this was part of the "to vote" right that the people had. Some failed to exercise that right. Period. For the country to spend weeks arguing to count these screwup vote attempts is ridiculous. It wasn't rocket surgery, and anyone that tries to make some excuse for it sickens my stomach. If it was me i'd be ashamed to have those counted as votes for me. But that's just me. CMB, elitist, racist, bigot, member of the Stonecutters and lately the No Homers.



To: Roger A. Babb who wrote (4077)12/10/2000 11:23:49 PM
From: Blue On Black  Respond to of 19633
 
Roger,
Not defending CMB....Doesn't need it IMHO. But if you read the papers of the Founding Fathers, we are meant to be 'elitist'.
Why do we have an electoral college rather than popular vote?
What does that do to one person...one vote?
What was the the literacy rate in 1776?
What is it now?

I don't care about ones economic condition...I don't care about ones education... I do care if you are thinking.

One of my favorite quotes...There is nothing wrong with being ignorant....just staying that way....
lee