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To: Juli who wrote (1814)	12/13/2000 11:17:38 AM
From: Hawkmoon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 4583

I apologize. I guess elections are dirtier than I thought. Indeed they can be. However, I think we can draw significant differences between how Al Gore and George Bush handled their respective campaigns over the past several years. Both have been guilty of hyperbole, distortion, and negativism, but for Bush, most of that, unfortunately, occurred during the primaries (I voted for McCain). Al Gore, on the other hand has accused Bush of everything from being "big oil" -while not discussing his own extensive ties to OXY-, to telling black voters that Bush would roll back civil rights to the days of slavery. He lied to unwitting elderly people about how he would preserve the SS trust fund in a "lock-box", despite the fact that any such plan was merely "smoke and mirrors", which would, in fact, INCREASE THE US NATIONAL DEBT, while calling Bush's plan for semi-privatization of SS as a "risky scheme". This despite the fact that Bush's plan in essentially a bi-partisan framework that was developed in the Senate by Bob Kerrey and another senator who's name I forget.. :0) Here's a link on what REALLY happens to SSTF revenues: concordcoalition.org And then there is the Al Gore who practiced for the debates in Florida with an actual shark-tank as his backdrop. Talk about sending a message about the manner in which he views the campaign process. But then he fully stated his views in 1991, where he summed up his view about how he must handle his campaign style: He doesn't mind going right to the line, or even across it. In 1991, in a presidential campaign, he said during a rare unguarded moment that you have to be willing to "rip the heart and lungs out of anybody else in the race." cnn.com (good article on Gore, btw). So yes, Juli... politics is a dirty business and some excel at it better than others. But then some, like Al Gore, go to the extent that they start throwing rocks within their own glass houses and find themselves damaged by their own hypocrisy. Btw... I wasn't really that serious about the apology.. I fully recognize that there are many ideas that sound extremely sound on the surface, but pose numerous problems when closely scrutinized. That is the nature of government. Also, I would recommend that you study the USSC's opinion on this and you'll understand the rationale they used for making their decision. I believe it was very clear why this debacle had unfortunately become a federal issue. cspan.org I've also read the dissenting opinions and, while I understand and acknowledge their concerns, really find the evidence and facts that they presented to support their dissent was pretty arbitrary with regard to remedy. In sum, it simply violates the rights of all voters for certain votes to be treated differently than others and for arbitrary and subjective standards to be created post-facto to the actual election. That said, ALL STATES will quite likely be spending significant time and money over the next couple of years to resolve these discrepancies and ensure that their voting systems leave little doubt as to how to discern the "clear intent of the voter". Regards, Ron

To: Juli who wrote (1814)	12/13/2000 11:44:09 AM
From: GROUND ZERO™	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 4583

Illegal aliens have been voting here for years, Jeb Bush is our Governor..... GZ

To: Juli who wrote (1814)	12/13/2000 12:57:28 PM
From: Hawkmoon	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 4583

Hey Juli and all... not trying to turn this into a political thread, but since the topic does impact the markets I figured I might post it here. If you recall we discussed the arbitrary nature in which the concept of "clear intent of the voter" was being decided in some counties, especiall Broward. Here's a great link that shows a transcript of how these votes were actually be interpreted subjectively. drudgereport.com Bottomline, if reasonable people can disagree on the intent of the voter, then clear intent obviously has not been shown and the vote must be discarded. This is quite likely what bothered the marjority the most, the lack of solid standards and evidence of subjectivity in assessing what was a legal vote. It is certainly what bothered me to the greatest extent. Regards, Ron