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To: George Schulte who wrote (43576)	12/15/2000 11:50:12 AM
From: Kanetsu	Respond to of 57584

actually my stops are mental, I don't leave them in the market. They are triggered by different things in different cases, like when a certain level in the nazdaq futures is hit. I'll say "i'm out of here" if the naz futures hit -80. A surge of huge(over 10,000)buy/sell orders on level II on a particular stock might almost cause me to exit. Finally, I have a dollar limit that I will risk on any trade, this is my stop of last resort. When I do decide to sell/buy I use limit orders below or above market all ready to go on Velocity, limit orders get filled faster than market orders at schwab. But believe me, I get my fill of bad fills. It's far from perfect, but it works for me. Uh oh naz futures nearing my -80...

To: George Schulte who wrote (43576)	12/15/2000 11:53:37 AM
From: rocklobster	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 57584

basically, a stop order is just an order that turns into a market order when the price hits your target.. In my opinion, Stops are a license to steal by MM's I have never had a complete fill at my stop price, and often, it is much worse. if you are trading 100 shares, you will have better luck, but basically what happens is lets say that you want to unload 1000 BRCM if it goes below 110.. the stock starts dropping, and the bid hits your price.. Basically what happens, is that at this point your order turns into a market order and goes to the back of the order line. this is what causes a lot of bad fills in my opinion. since you must sell at the bid, essentially the market has already run through your price when the stop triggers.. In a fast moving stock, with large number of shares, you will lose a lot of money.. and if you put a stop limit in, then they will just run right through your order and not fill you at all.. I hate using stops, as I get ripped off almost ever time I use them... the only thing worse is not using them, and having the price drop out from under you while you hope it bounces back..LOL... damned if ya do, damned if ya don't if ya know what I mean rok