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To: UnBelievable who wrote (54333)	1/4/2001 8:03:06 PM
From: pater tenebrarum	Read Replies (4) \| Respond to of 436258

yes, it's quite amazing. i know that one of the tricks used are spoof bids and offers. MWD got caught once, and paid a fine of $500,000 for allegedly manipulating prices of NAZ stocks in this manner for well over a year. i'm sure they yawned while writing the SEC the check.

To: UnBelievable who wrote (54333)	1/5/2001 2:41:12 PM
From: TRINDY	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 436258

UB, Are money-flow statistics commonly available? If so, where? TIA

To: UnBelievable who wrote (54333)	1/5/2001 7:35:14 PM
From: James F. Hopkins	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 436258

Re > I really don't know how they do it. The stock goes up 23% in a day and the sum of the money on the downticks is significantly greater than the upticks. They can see the where the stops loss orders are and from time to time they take em out ( if they see enough) Jim Stops are highly praised by the professionals, as once you put them in they can take credit for limiting your loss. The truth is if you think you need stops you shouldn't play the stock. ( use options instead ) Jim