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Politics : The Left Wing Porch -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Rambi who wrote (3012)	1/14/2001 11:48:29 AM
From: Poet	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 6089

Oh that was a thing of beauty, Rambi, thanks. :) I'm trying to think of the New England version of a gloved and hatted intelligent Southern lady. I suppose it is the image of the Yankee Matron:accustomed to pinching pennies, plain honest talk, and supporting her community quietly and without fanfare. I fit in pretty well with that characterization. On a Yankee Matron's tray, though, there's always a little smoked fish and a chilled bottle of wine. Hope that's OK alongside the cookies and lemonade. I do very much want this place to be a refuge as well as a place for folks to talk politics, literature, food and love with some degree of warmth in their hearts. There is so much divisiveness, so much bad feelings on both sides of the political coin, and so many other places to "get into it" that I find myself coming here just to sit a while and catch my breath. I noticed YYB did the same this week and I'm so glad you do too.

To: Rambi who wrote (3012)	1/14/2001 1:12:28 PM
From: cosmicforce	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 6089

I used to call myself a gun-toting liberal (hee-hee). Funny, my politics tend to be fiscally conservative, socially liberal and intensely individual rights oriented. Once I thought I might be a big "L" libertarian, but alas, I find I'm a small "l" libertarian and am represented by no party, man (or woman) completely in politics. But I am tough, brash and arrogant, and will take on injustice where ever I see it. Now where did my cape go?

To: Rambi who wrote (3012)	1/14/2001 1:12:36 PM
From: Daniel Schuh	Read Replies (4) \| Respond to of 6089

Confessions of a Lonely Atheist nytimes.com As promised, Rambi, the other article. This would in principle be a good one for the old time free-thinking feelies, but theological discussions are a little too closely supervised there these days. Somewhat in honor of the rather strange crisco saga, I post this excerpt. What's more, in some quarters, atheism, far from being rare, is the norm -- among scientists, for example, particularly high-level scientists who populate academia. Recently, Edward J. Larson, a science historian at the University of Georgia, and Larry Witham, a writer, polled scientists listed in American Men and Women of Science on their religious beliefs. Among this general group, a reasonably high proportion, 40 percent, claimed to believe in a "personal God" who would listen to their prayers. But when the researchers next targeted members of the National Academy of Sciences, an elite coterie if ever there was one, belief in a personal God was 7 percent, the flip of the American public at large. This is not to say that intelligence and atheism are in any way linked, but to suggest that immersion in the scientific method, and success in the profession, tend to influence its practitioners. "It's a consequence of the experience of science," says Steven Weinberg, a Nobel laureate and professor of physics at the University of Texas. "As you learn more and more about the universe, you find you can understand more and more without any reference to supernatural intervention, so you lose interest in that possibility. Most scientists I know don't care enough about religion even to call themselves atheists. And that, I think, is one of the great things about science -- that it has made it possible for people not to be religious." So long, that is, as the nonbelievers remain humble. Among the more irritating consequences of our flagrantly religious society is the special dispensation that mainstream religions receive. We all may talk about religion as a powerful social force, but unlike other similarly powerful institutions, religion is not to be questioned, criticized or mocked. When the singer-songwriter Sinéad O'Connor ripped apart a photograph of John Paul II to protest what she saw as his overweening power, even the most secular humanists were outraged by her idolatry, and her career has never really recovered. "Society bends over backward to be accommodating to religious sensibilities but not to other kinds of sensibilities," says Richard Dawkins, an evolutionary biologist and outspoken atheist. "If I say something offensive to religious people, I'll be universally censured, including by many atheists. But if I say something insulting about Democrats or Republicans or the Green Party, one is allowed to get away with that. Hiding behind the smoke screen of untouchability is something religions have been allowed to get away with for too long." Yes. There's something odd, in the political climate of the past 8 years, about the idea that Ashcroft's self-anointing is somehow beyond the realm of humor. Cheers, Dan.

To: Rambi who wrote (3012)	1/14/2001 2:29:47 PM
From: cosmicforce	Respond to of 6089

Being of a protected strict Catholic upbringing whose life was governed by specific do's and don't's that prescribed not only what I could eat but when, and informed me into what category every misstep fell and precisely the number of Hail Marys that would get it off my record, the thought that right and wrong had to be decided based upon the circumstances and could have different "right" responses was both terrifying and freeing Yeah, Catholics have reduced karma to accounting principles IMO. My first real girlfriend was a Catholic girl who got very confused about the disparity between her "do's" and "don'ts" and "emotions". Poor thing. I used to be mad at her but I now attribute it to religious damage to her delicate psyche. I'm still mad at the Catholics for that chapter in my life. I won't hold you personally accountable, but you can do some Hail Marys if you want to help balance the accounts for the organization as a whole. I maintain an offshore account where the karma tax collectors can be ignored. I'll send God my account number and he can forward it to His people.