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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: GROUND ZERO™ who wrote (982)	1/15/2001 9:44:10 AM
From: Poet	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 82486

Hi GZ, I know you didn't ask me, but I'll pipe up anyway. <g> I think infidelity is pretty damned rampant among middle-aged folks who've been married for a long time. This doesn't make it right, but I think the fact that it's so common is interesting. I tend not to be judgemental about it if it's done under the following conditions: not in anger or retribution toward the spouse, discreetly, safely (I mean protection from pregnancy and STD's), and with a peer. As far as I'm concerned, Clinton did a number of things I find more abhorent than the adultery itself. His choice of partner in a woman young enough to be his daughter, his lack of emotional involvement and insistence that she service him only, and most importantly, his denial and vilification of her after the facts were made public were most upsetting to me.

To: GROUND ZERO™ who wrote (982)	1/15/2001 10:37:22 AM
From: epicure	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 82486

Yes- I know exactly how serious they are. I always give a serious response and am not posturing for an audience- so I know exactly what this is about. But no matter. Let's see, I do not admire Mr Clinton for what he has done. I do not think he is a good or moral person no matter how much he talks about God and forgiveness, and prays on his knees to his God. God may be forgiving in his own very weird way, but I am not. It is important to remember the vows people break, and it is important to use stigma and moral opprobrium where appropriate.. I do not think blow jobs are the equivalent of sex for some people, but they are the same thing for me. What I would tell his daughter is that his shame is not hers. Although it is always unfair when your parents expose you to humiliation for their actions it is by no means a rare occurrence- I would remind her there are men who sleep with their daughters, and who knock around or even kill their wives and children, or who drink until they fall down. I would suggest she try to find some way to use her experience positively. I would never keep an adulterer from office, or from being a financial advisor or a doctor, or anything else- it is simply my opinion that it is a very wrong thing to do, or to speak about as if it were a good thing. I think stigma is important for people who do things that are wrong. I don't see what there is to discuss- one either thinks adultery is wrong or one doesn't. I, in my relative world, think it is very very wrong. I've no idea what you think.

To: GROUND ZERO™ who wrote (982)	1/15/2001 11:11:21 AM
From: Rarebird	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 82486

<What are your candid thoughts about President Clinton's involvement with Monica Lewinsky? What are your views about how he has brought shame and dishonor to himself for being an adulterer, and brought shame, disloyalty, and disgrace to his marriage and family?> People's conception of marriage is different. Values are primarily created. Perhaps the Clinton's agreed to an "open marriage" from the outset. That is not how my marriage operates but I see nothing wrong with it as long as both parties consent. Moreover, I think you are overlooking the fact that some couples are bisexual, which prevents them from living in accordance with your old-fashioned Judaic-Christian values. Should the law prevent bisexuals from getting married even though they make very good mothers and fathers too? I think you are being harsh, insensitive and excessively moral. Not all humans fit nicely into a predetermined moral scheme. This is why some aspects of morality can be limiting, restrictive and inapplicable to some people with "alternative lifestyles." Respect for Human Differences comes before Morality. Without respect, morality can become rigid, restrictive, and obtrusive.