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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: epicure who wrote (1022)	1/15/2001 12:44:09 PM
From: hobo	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

roflmao

To: epicure who wrote (1022)	1/15/2001 3:52:22 PM
From: E	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 82486

Tell me GZ isn't a therapist. Please. I got a PM telling me about the X/Edwarda/JLA/GZ situation, and also expressing annoyance at the concept of describing oneself as "hurt" by such comments as yours. I wrote this to send by PM, and was going to PM you a copy of it, but I think I'll post it here instead. Here is what I was going to say privately: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I have a lot of feelings and thoughts. Mostly rather depressed ones, but more than that. I am thinking of posting something. But it's hard to know what to say because of the nature of the situation. I feel like defending both X and Edwarda. Try that one on for size, eek. I'm going to think about it. The trouble is that the defense I'd like to give of Edwarda would have to admit that she was imperfect. And the defense of X's right to attack Edwarda posthumously (it's not hypocritical; Edwarda had real faults) would have to admit that, imo, it's decidedly not very nice. "Nice," I mean. You know. "Don't speak ill of the dead" is silly as an absolute rule of course. But it's not totally silly. In cases in which nothing is accomplished. And the person so recently died. Died young, and very unpleasantly. And was so patently a sad figure in life, specifically at the time she died, when she was out of a job and very upset and off balance on that score. And the speaking ill is in public, in the hearing of the friends of the deceased. To me it's tasteless. And what's the point? Poor Edwarda. And the business of saying one is "hurt"? Why is that so awful? In my experience, that's just a way people have of changing the subject to something they aren't prepared to discuss substantively with the person they're talking to (in this case, the formidable X) to something they feel secure about discussing -- their feelings. The substantive discussion would have entailed such questions as: Was X's description true? If it was true, was Edwarda's behavior immoral? If X's comments were true, was posting them bad taste, or in some other way indefensible? There are a number of perfectly legitimate reasons a friend of Edwarda might not want to engage in that lengthy discussion, but might still feel that Edwarda, who is, after all, unable to come to her own defense, should be defended by those who were her friends in life. So to say what is undeniable, and changes the subject, and feels like a defense of Edwarda, and is one, even if it isn't a substantive one, "That hurt me," isn't such a pointless thing to do, I don't think. Vulnerable to ridicule, maybe, but not ethically contemptible. Edwarda wasn't discreet, that's true. And she was sexual, and open about her sexuality-- in a way usually reserved for men, and not criticized when displayed by men on SI. But she was very intelligent, and lots of fun, and psychologically acute -- even about herself -- and, unusually, she had friends from all positions on the political spectrum, and she was a nurturant, generative person with who died lonely and neglected and afraid and much too young. And I don't see the point of putting up billboards in the cemetery listing what one believes are the personal defects of those of the deceased one didn't care for. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ X, I'm posting it to you instead of PMing it because I think our friendship can survive it. And I want to say publicly that I knew Edwarda, and miss her, and to say to all those who knew her only slightly -- yes, Edwarda was very naughty, that is true -- but she was an extraordinary person with many wonderful qualities. BTW, X, you are extraordinary, too. Braver than I am where expressing your convictions is concerned.