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Politics : The Left Wing Porch -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Dayuhan who wrote (3152)	1/16/2001 10:17:44 PM
From: cosmicforce	Respond to of 6089

Others before me have said that it is just that, a circle. I agree that in the results of their methods, extremists are indistinguishable.

To: Dayuhan who wrote (3152)	1/16/2001 11:21:46 PM
From: iandiareii	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 6089

I think some difference (between anarchism and libertarianism) lies in their fundamental conceptions of human nature, and thus in their relative political projects. Anarchists, from withering-away-of-the-state types to up-against-the-wall adherents, maintain that humans are basically caring beings trapped in a system that forces each against each. Remove obstacles A, B, and C, they say, and our better angels will shine rendering government unnecessary. Libertarians seem to think that they have much to fear from their fellows -- and always will -- both individually and in aggregate. A maximum of self-reliance remains the preferred arrangement in a world likely hostile to one's own interests. Now I defy anyone to write a cruder, less-nuanced precis than the one here foisted. ian

To: Dayuhan who wrote (3152)	1/17/2001 6:55:47 AM
From: Poet	Respond to of 6089

Steve, I'm glad you brought that subject up here. It's valid point and probably just got lost in the sauce over on the Boxing Ring. I too, have noticed the phenomenon shift over the last twenty-five years, from liberal distrust of government, to general malaise, to conservative distrust of government. It 's impossible to tease out the role that simple partisanship plays here, though I lean toward thinking it's rather large. My own feeling is that conservatives are all too willing to support big intrusive government as long as it's big intrusive conservative government. Liberals like big government as long as that big government is liberal. Very well said. I suppose conservatives would argue that increased defense spending is not government and that deep budget cuts would not involve government either...

To: Dayuhan who wrote (3152)	1/17/2001 8:29:51 AM
From: Tom Clarke	Respond to of 6089

I think we're about the same age, Steven. I recall the left being anti-war but not anti-government. Ironically, the Old Right was against the war, too. My own feeling is that conservatives are all too willing to support big intrusive government as long as it's big intrusive conservative government. Liberals like big government as long as that big government is liberal It's hard to argue against this. The "revolution" of 94 has deteriorated into a contest to see who can bring home the most boodle. The few principled conservatives have term limited themselves out. From my perspective we have a leftist party and a center left party in Washington. Depending on who you ask, I think you'll get different definitions on what anarchism is. In Europe they are certainly associated with the left, but there is an American anarchist tradition that started with Lysander Spooner and Benjamin Tucker that I think is more in line with libertarianism. I like the circle analogy, it is neat and round, but I don't quite buy into it. Perhaps it's time to drop the left-right thing and move to a new nomenclature. Statist and anti-statist?