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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: hobo who wrote (1327)	1/17/2001 10:34:05 PM
From: TimF	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

so the hatred in Northern Ireland is caused by.... Religious beliefs are definitly a factor here but so is nationalism. The IRA isn't campaigning for religious rights for Catholics or for the south to kick out protestants. They want to be part of the south. The violent protestant groups want nothing of the sort and they want to control what happens in the north (i.e. lust for power) In any case your whole arguement for reperations would rely on direct actions of the church you want reperations from. The Catholic Church doesn't teach its members to kill protestants, no major protestant church teaches its members to kill catholics. They don't orginize bombings or other terrorist attacks. This is a perfect example of my statement that you laughed at. The churches do not cause this violence nor do they have the power to stop it. The two sides identify themselves primarily by religion but neither the IRA or the protestant militias are religious groups. They don't fight for theological reasons and they are not arms of their respective churches. the Fascist in South America killed Indians because of... Primarily lust for power. Other reasons would probably include racial predjudice. the Balkans region has been the center of love sharing for what 300 years They fight for land and power and to revenege what they see as past wrongs commited against them. The middle east people are killing eachother because ... what ? they love each other ? No because they hate each other. Also because of desire of control of land, and like in the Balkans desire for revenge. hmmm if they did, why don't they divide Jerusalem in 4 cities... ? Because they all want it for themselves. Again desire for power and land. Here is your best case for involvement of religions because in times past it was often religions who directly started or influenced the conflicts. The crusades, varius jihads and such. Also there still are religious leaders calling for or even orginizing some of the ongoing violence. In cases where this is true you might have some moral ground to call for reperations but practically its not going to happen. If you really had so much control of the situation it would be better used to stop the violence. sooner or later the "pretext" to "convert" is part of the "friendly persuasion" practiced all over the world I won't say it doesn't happen at all any more and it certinly did happen in the past but forced conversion is a pretty rare thing, that nor major world wide religious orginization still does as an orginization on a wide spread basis. yes of course you accept the inquisition because it was a they received DIRECT orders from Rome and the Spanish Crown... how can it be dennied... In the case of the inquistion the Church was directly involved and was a powerful political entity. In some ways it was the government it was more then merly influence, sometimes the church could force great nobles or kings to do their bidding. Now the Catholic church is not much of a government, unless you count Vatican city which is small and no one is forced to stay there. It has no army (unless you count the tiny Swiss Guard which could not threaten any country). No country would be swayed by threats of an inderdict or by excommunication of their leader. The church would not even thing of trying such a thing. Now the churchs influence is similar to that of any other political pressure group. It is an orginized group with a lot of members who use thier voice, their money and their votes to support the churches ideas. The Catholic Church has a lot more members then most lobbying/pressure groups but many of its members are less commited to the church or for pushing for any political ideas its heirarchy might have then are members of environmental groups or the NRA. Today... if the POPE says... no contraceptives for the people.... that statement is LAW for many, the inquisition does not exists because it was outlawed The pope can not make any enforceable law. If people are convinced that the church is right then they follow their consience. If they think he is wrong or they don't care then they will do that as well. Use of contraceptives by Catholics is hardly rare. Speaking out against contraceptaives is not killing or abuseing anyone or even the same as banning contraceptives. The church doesn't want the inquisition and has no power to enforce it even if it did want to. Tim