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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: TimF who wrote (1434)	1/18/2001 12:57:24 PM
From: Daniel Schuh	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

So if they keep their filthy evil perversions behind closed doors you might tolerate their existance?? Is that how you look at it? Funny, Tim. I don't know if you read the other thread, but there was this interesting article over the weekend. Confessions of a Lonely Atheist nytimes.com Who would want to be the low man on the voter poll? When asked in 1999 whether they would consider voting for a woman for president, 92 percent of Americans said yes, up from 76 percent in 1978; 95 percent of respondents would vote for a black, a gain of 22 points since 1978; Jews were up to 92 percent from 82 in the votability index; even homosexuals have soared in popularity, acceptable presidential fodder to 59 percent of Americans today, compared with 26 percent in 1978. But atheists, well, there's no saving them. Of all the categories in this particular Gallup poll, they scraped bottom, considered worthy candidates by only 49 percent of Americans, a gain of a mere 9 percent since 1978. "Throughout American history, there's been this belief that our country has a covenant with God and that a deity watches over America," says Michael Cromartie, vice president of the Ethics and Public Policy Center in Washington. Atheism, in other words, is practically unpatriotic. It's enough to make one tell a nosy pollster, oh, yes, I believe in God. It's enough to make one not want to discuss belief in the first place, or to reach for palatable terms like "secular humanist," or "freethinker," or "agnostic," which sound so much less dogmatic than "atheist," so much less cocksure. And so on. A long article, but I can't help seeing whining about "intolerance" of religion in the US as somewhat in contrast to certain obvious tendencies . I would also point out in passing that "One Nation under God" is a cold war relic, and while "In God We Trust" goes back to the Civil war; neither is based on "original intent" or anything like that. Though people are always willing to work at fudging "original intent", as show here. The Real Jefferson on Religion by Robert S. Alley secularhumanism.org If you don't see school prayer as somewhat more coercive than what usually gets protected under "free speech", well, that's your right. But in general, people don't get to say whatever they want whenever and wherever they want. Particularly in school. Oddly, growing up as a Catholic, I was taught to be suspicious of public school prayer, because it obviously wasn't the right prayer for us. Who's to say what is the right form of school prayer, either then or now? Cheers, Dan.

To: TimF who wrote (1434)	1/18/2001 1:45:16 PM
From: hobo	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

So if they keep their filthy evil perversions behind closed doors you might tolerate their existance?? Is that how you look at it? LOL !!! must be a projection, no doubt. hmmm no, i did not say that... are churches "closed doors"? i highly doubt it, then again, it depends on the church and the person who is trying to enter said church. not being a church going person i would not know. my impression is that they do not pray under the "close doors" theory that you allude, if i understand you correctly. now... what i said was... as for "religious freedom"... well, well... if the churches (all of them) promise to behave and never preach upon those who do not request to be preached on... or attempt that unwilling listeners sit in public places (such as public schools)...listening to the prayers that means : you are FREE to pray all you want, in the proper place. YOUR church, YOUR home, YOUR head. i also expect that they behave in the sense that if there are people who do NOT want to listen to it, their right to privacy should be respected. what's the point to pray in "public anyway ? (particularly a school, where there are many who do not want to listen) religion seems to me a PERSONAL thing, what is the point to be praying publicly ? i fail to understand that, (and i do NOT want you to explain it to me). i see this desire of doing public prayer as indoctrination. i personally do not have to listen to it. i also have the right that my privacy be respected. schools are places to educate children. their minds can be guided in any direction, depending go is teaching and what they are teaching. there are millions of parents who DO NOT want to hear prayers or ANY type of church indoctrination PERIOD. so, do you understand now ? how hard can be this simple concept to understand ? obviously for you it is. i as well as others, have the right to privacy, i find the church beliefs evil, dishonest, and worse. NOTHING will change that, i am convinced of that. now i am not imposing my view on you, nor even asking you to consider it. if you do not agree with me, then fine. just respect my damned belief. now... if you yourself consider whatever is it that you are doing evil... well, i won't be surprised. but that is YOUR choice, you said so yourself. as i told you earlier... you are not going to convince me, nor i am going to convince you. -- nor i have the interest to convince you. we have both made our respective points. now please take your mission with someone else. i am very happy being the way i am. why ? because i find your insistence (like most religious preachings), offensive and your "switching" of the meanings of my words likewise.