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To: Boplicity who wrote (10157)2/14/2001 11:32:30 AM
From: Hobie1Kenobe  Respond to of 13572
 
Greg - I think your vision was on the markt - BB buildout, voice-based internet, wireless access everywhere. It's just so unfortunate that A.G.'s liquidity orgy in late 1999 inflated the bubble beyond reason. The start of the new bull will be directly affected by the speed at which A.G. facilitates liquidity that will encourage frightened businesses to move ahead again in the above capex areas. While I'm generally skeptical about V-shaped recoveries, the internet and its incorporation into existing businesses (via supply-chain mgt.) may just allow us to move thru the current recession (and we're in one despite what A.G. says)in internet time. We're hanging out over the abyss in the NAZZ - like in the trapeze of my Hobie 16. Scary
JF3



To: Boplicity who wrote (10157)2/14/2001 11:33:42 AM
From: horsegirl48  Read Replies (3) | Respond to of 13572
 
Greg if they government wanted to stop the insanity in the market there was other things they could of done beside destroying people, they could have changed the margin, they could have put a end to alot of things, it has not only been tech that has been destroyed but little old lady stocks too.
The new bull market will come again Im sure, will tech be the leader in this, dont think so maybe it will go the way of the railroad and only the very strong will survive. I think when all stocks are equally hammered people will be willing to take a chance again. Both markets working together, until they can I dont see a bull returning. I think the price of oil as to go down, maybe a war to bring it there.
We live in a world were a cheap home costs 250,000 and a cheap car is 20,000. What can our children expect to own in the future? What kind of money must they make to survive? Just ramblin and wonder where all this will lead us?



To: Boplicity who wrote (10157)2/14/2001 11:36:19 AM
From: MulhollandDrive  Respond to of 13572
 
>>I would love the hear from posters on this thread or elsewhere what their take is on what the new bull market will look like. <<

Hi Greg,

I'm going to give this more thought. The market obviously is floundering seeking direction. We might be back to where we were last May marking down stocks to reflect slowing growth in earnings. Your point about LU was excellent.



To: Boplicity who wrote (10157)2/14/2001 1:04:04 PM
From: zamboz  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 13572
 
Greg, The worst case: Bobby Beara's chart showing the DOW making a new high 30 years from now. Scary stuff--especially when the Mayan calendar runs out in 11 more years. <g> Even if the calendar does not run out, we will be sort of old in 2030.



To: Boplicity who wrote (10157)2/14/2001 2:42:08 PM
From: Raymond Duray  Read Replies (4) | Respond to of 13572
 
Hi Greg,

Re: I would love the hear from posters on this thread or elsewhere what their take is on what the new bull market will look like.

Beware of what it is you seek. :)

The drivers for bull markets are general prosperity, loose rules for the acquisition and disposal of equities, favorable monetary policy and a new technological advance that is compelling to the investment community, i.e. the story. Let's examine each of these in turn.

1) General Prosperity - You may have noticed the new SI thread that compiles the growing list of lay-off announcements. This is viewed by some Schumpeterians as a wholly healthy aspect of creative destruction. Those who are getting the pink slips, especially with their stock options now worthless, don't see things exactly the same way. The sentiment among the third shift workers at the Chrysler assembly plant in Belvedere, IL, all recently made redundant, is probably even worse. They don't have prospects to apply new economy skills to replacement jobs. Their $60,000 PA incomes are about to be halved. On the docks at CF in Chicago, the biggest business in the past couple of weeks has been shipments of promotional materials for the Daytona 500 and an association convention. Not exactly the industrial widgets that were flowing through that hub a year ago. Look at the California economy. Layoffs in the brick, flower and bakery industries as spot prices for natural gas has destroyed business models. Ag commodity prices still weak. Where's the prosperity? How about the involuntary layoffs at Charles Schwab. Looks like the brokerage industry is itself sort of broken. So, I just don't see the general sense of well-being that is requisite for a bull market return, based on the "animal spirits" of the investing community. They're still smarting from paying that grossly inflated utility bill, while perusing the latest deflation in their brokerage statements and wondering where things are really headed. A quote from Cheryl Strauss-Einhorn about commodities: "Demand simply isn't there."

2) Loose Rules on the Acquisition and Disposal of Equities - We certainly do have this phenomenon working in the favor of the markets. LIFFE in London just commenced single stock futures trading and it is going to be available state-side by the end of summer. Margin rules aren't going to change, and the opportunity for gambling in the equity markets hasn't been as uncontrolled since the 1920's. What a great run that was, eh?

3) Favorable Monetary Policy - After a year of strangling the market with higher rates and the withdrawl of liquidity, the FRB made an abrupt about face in the face of a stock market crisis in early January. The FRB continues to prop up the market with added liquidity and its precipitous rate cut, matching a similar fit of fear in 1994. At present, the FRB feels that it has done what needs to be done to keep the markets on a somewhat even keel. There is fear in the heart of the FRB regarding a further decline in the NAZ, for instance, because of the tremendously damaging psychological impact that would have. Should the markets lock up, no one, except the most curmudgeonly shorts, would be allowed to prosper. This is clearly not on Greenspan's agenda. However, he's not in the least bit motivated to recreate the Bubble of 2000, nor should he be. We have witnessed a historical moment at the blowoff top last March and it generally takes years if not decades to align all the parts of a general hysteria once again. I see no catalyst in the near horizon. But there is one brewing, more below.

4) A New Technological Advance that is Compelling to the Investment Community - Perhaps you noticed the market's reaction today to the Orange IPO. This is the Great White Hope for the 3G wireless revolution. It fell flat on its face. Too many of us know that there is no there there, as far as profitability and prosperity for the buildout of the 3rd generation of wireless services. It demands too much capital, it requires the gutting of existing prosperous GSM services and it will be way beyond the next decade before the extravagant and irrational bidding war for UMTS licenses is finally normalized in the capital markets. BT, DT and others have amply demonstrated the ability to shoot themselves in the foot with irresponsible bidding for licenses. The credit markets have responded with appropriate bond rating reductions. So, the whole Internet-optical-wireless-telecom sector will not be the driving force for the next great bull market. [[More on this subject at the AMCC thread, post #1337 ]]
Nor will the PC industry, which is sliding inexorably into the status of a mere commodity business.

What then to look to for the future catalyst for the bull to return? My best guess is that it will be bioinformatics and proteomics that lead the charge. That the announcement this week by the HGP and CRA in Nature and Science will be the scientific basis for a true revolution in biological science. It's not just me who believes this, I've got some very high-bandwidth company in this viewpoint. Nathan Myrvold, the ex-CTO of Microsoft is fully engaged in the biotech sector, see the current issue of Red Herring for the details.

With about 15% of the US economy devoted to health care, and expected to rise dramatically as the boomer generation goes geriatric, I'd say it's a no-brainer to think that any new cancer cure, alzheimer's vaccine or life extension technology will be a great driver for the markets.

So, Greg, I'm off to study up on SNPs. It's da fushia....:)
And I expect the bull to raise its horns and start to charge in a couple of years. The newly mapped, and still incomplete genome is just starting to yield economically important and scientifically exciting results. We are only in the starting blocks on this, the biggest scientific advance of our lifetimes.

We got to get this new story in place for the investment community to start to salivate in a serious, slobbery style. As I say, it'll take a couple of years. But the media is geared up and the public will soon be abuzz with discussions of how primitive our drug discovery process used to be.... and, wow, we really are gonna cure that cancer...

HTH, Ray



To: Boplicity who wrote (10157)2/14/2001 7:24:24 PM
From: brightness00  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 13572
 
My three additions to your list of causes of the collapse:

(1) FED's reckless pumping of liquidity towards the end of 1999. It was a classic case of the pay-off matrix of bureaucrats not co-incide with the pay-off matrix of the economy; the bureaucrats were far more afraid of the Y2K nonsense than the private citizenry.

(2) Capital gain tax. The April 2000 tax bill was the real Y2K crisis, which drained even more liquidity than the FED

(3) Spectrum auctioning. The bureaucrats thought they found a free pot of gold and promote competition at the same time, in a logic akin to that behind the Californian utility deregulation; ie. utter lack of consideration to the consequences of their actions. What the auction amounted to was a huge tax on the telecom industry because the astronomical proceeds from the auctions were not paid back into the industry, say spreading among the "losers" in the bidding; the net result was a huge tax. There was a reason why the federal government gave out land practically for free during the westward expansion; the bureaucrats of today failed to grasp it.

Just my couple cents, Jim



To: Boplicity who wrote (10157)2/14/2001 11:22:37 PM
From: DlphcOracl  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 13572
 
Greg: What will the next bull market look like?

Just like the last one minus the dot-coms. Memories are short and a bear market will not eliminate the innate greed investors have for oversized returns. Right now, fear prevails and value stocks are in vogue. However, as soon as investors sense that there may be a sustained turnaround and there is evidence of renewed capex and corporate IT spending, tech investors will come piling in again and P/E's of 200 and over will resurface. I would not be surprised to see NASDAQ reach 5000 in late 1003 or Q1 2004.



To: Boplicity who wrote (10157)2/14/2001 11:31:23 PM
From: D.B. Cooper  Respond to of 13572
 
I have a feeling that the new Dot.coms that will be coming out in the next couple of years will succeed, that they will have learned from the first generations' mistakes. The Bull is not dead just resting.



To: Boplicity who wrote (10157)2/15/2001 2:22:07 AM
From: Walter Xie  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 13572
 
Greg, The market is about to do its final thing before the big crash--to kill the bears. Don't you see they are celebrating all over the place. I think we don't need to worry about what will shape the new bull market for now. It'll come from nowhere. And everywhere. New ways to move people and goods around; new ways to move data around; new ways to fuel engines; new ways to cure diseases; new ways to find new ways.... Before that, the market needs to shake up its dirt inside out. Who knows how long it'll take.
W



To: Boplicity who wrote (10157)2/16/2001 12:25:24 PM
From: MulhollandDrive  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 13572
 
>>I would love the hear from posters on this thread or elsewhere what their take is on the new bull market will look like.<<

Uh oh, read it and weep....

<vbg>

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