Silicon Investor (SI) -- The First Internet Community

STOCKTALK

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor. We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community. If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.

Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Greg or e who wrote (5993)	2/16/2001 9:54:56 AM
From: Lane3	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 82486

I know they do a lot of great stuff, but when a policy, takes precedence over the lives of innocent children, then perhaps it's time to re-evaluate that policy. We all have a hierarchy of values. Obviously the protection of innocent human life is at the top of yours. It trumps everything. I respect that. I wouldn't want to change your mind about it. I just have two points about it. The first is about effectiveness. I think that E makes a superb point about why AI is effective--they are thoughtful and pragmatic about what it takes to be effective and they focus on that. They may not have achieved all their objectives, but they've moved things in their choice of direction. Sometimes people hold such strong beliefs or are so emotional about their beliefs that they unconsciously decide to go down in flames rather than concede anything, even that the other guys may from time to time have a point or that progress can be made by evolution rather than by revolution. If they make that choice consciously, I respect that, too. And their opponents are overjoyed by it. When the choice is not conscious, however, but a result of the blindness of their passion and conviction, I find that sad. And dangerous. And a waste. When we have a cause, we have to decide whether we want to be purists or whether we want to prevail. The second point is about cost. I put a higher priority on liberty than you apparently do so. You are apparently prepared to sacrifice the liberty of everyone for the life of the unborn. Wow. The question has been raised here, and no one has yet given a remotely satisfying answer, as to why an unborn child should be denied the status, and thereby the rights, of a fully human being. I can understand why you remain unconvinced--I would not expect otherwise--but to have not heard a REMOTELY satisfying answer? Have you given any thought to what things would be like if your dearest wish were to come true and each and every fetus had the same status as a born citizen? Imagine some scenarios of everyday life and think about how they might be different. Imagine a woman of child bearing age stopping at Starbucks for an expresso. How might that be different? Imagine how the police procedures surrounding a rape might change. Or a traffic accident. What additions might there be to the bureaucracy? Have you thought through how things might play out if you got your way? Karen

To: Greg or e who wrote (5993)	2/16/2001 12:48:08 PM
From: E	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

A zygote is not a human being. A zygote is human cells. Those cells may become, sometimes but by no means always, a human being. A zygote is a blueprint. A poached egg is not a roast chicken. The act by your movement of defining, via metaphysics, one entity as another doesn't transform that entity physically or by common sense. The act of forcing others to live by your metaphysics is un-American. It is precisely analogous to the behavior of the Taliban. Even the Church didn't see it as you do until quite recently. catholicsforchoice.org

To: Greg or e who wrote (5993)	2/16/2001 1:03:50 PM
From: E	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

Your point on AI is that it should be Superman, doing everything good, and you should get to define "good." (Just as you should get to define what is a human "being.") In our group there were those like you. Half of them believed AI was remiss in not changing its mandate to include the right to choice for women. Half of them believed the definition of human being should include eggs with sperm in them and the mandate should include AI's becoming an anti-abortion organization. Instead, we have all worked together and gotten several people out of dungeons where they were being tortured for such crimes as possessing a pamphlet.