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Politics : Formerly About Applied Materials -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Fred Levine who wrote (42652)	2/24/2001 12:07:00 PM
From: Kirk ©	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 70976

OT Brian--I agree with your sentiments, but I think if you asked the factory workers, they would want jobs before anything else. I agree. Great points. To add to the discussion: Even in the US, you have to start at an unlivable wage and work your way up. I remember my first job bussing tables at Farrels Ice Cream Parlor for $1.35 an hour. I got a free meal with each shift which was so cool as I only ate out at restaurants on rare occasions like Birthdays with my family. This was to put money away for college. I was 16 and the year was 1973. The next year I got a job at a car wash for $2.00 an hour and thought that was great. Tips were enough to buy a hamburger, shake and fries for lunch which was a big deal as I couldn't afford McDonalds before that. I quit that after a month as I got a job selling toys at Montgomery Wards (XMas Help) for $2.50 an hour. When I graduated from UC Berkeley in 1979 and got my first paycheck, I was blown away that the taxes for two weeks work were more than my 6 months gross while working as a bus boy only 6 years earlier! I've kept the tax returns and pay stubs as reminders. The point: Each year I got better jobs as I added more skills and experience. This is how it works. It seems the best companies can do is to pay better than the average for the places they do business and then offer education and opportunity for advancement while treating the workers there fairly. They should look to encourage honest government and build infrastructure to help the people in the countries they do business. IF a company went into an area and paid 10x the going wage, I imagine the other businesses there would really make life difficult... I've personally seen the positive effect of this in Singapore where over a 20 year period the wages of engineers there pretty much caught up with those in the US and so did their skills (for the most part in some areas.) BTW, places like Santa Cruz and Oakland are talking about or now have "living wages". Can you imagine having a small restaurant and having to pay the bus person $14 an hour?

To: Fred Levine who wrote (42652)	2/24/2001 2:48:58 PM
From: Proud_Infidel	Respond to of 70976

Fred, Brian--I agree with your sentiments, but I think if you asked the factory workers, they would want jobs before anything else. This is probably true, but it is also just as likely that they would want to keep the job before anything else only because they need to put food on the table. In a case of desperation, as we have seen with the stock market, despondent people will do things they would not ordinarily think of doing. My main point was that companies like Nike should not be able to contract out factory work and not be held liable for the conditions of the workers. MSFT did not get away with it when they tried it here, nor should manufacturing companies be abale to get away with it overseas. FWIW, The most recent issue of Red Herring has an article about microloans in third world countries. These are loans of approx $150 which is enough to allow someone living in a third world country to start a small business. These loans have repayment percenatge of 95%+, unheard of with western loans, credit cards etc. Additionally, a poll was taken asking how many people would pay apporox 5%-10% more if it it were proven that the working conditions were good and people treated humanely- 58% said they would. Brian

To: Fred Levine who wrote (42652)	2/25/2001 6:48:10 PM
From: Cary Salsberg	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 70976

Last week, the Mercury news had an article (sort of an obituary) about the last survivor of the Triangle Shirtwaist fire in NYC (1914 ??) who died recently at 107. To the end, she emphacized that 146 women died because the bosses habitually locked them in and didn't bother to unlock the door when the fire was discovered. This fire was a strong catalyst for the formation of the ILGWU and the union made it a "a good place to be from." To remedy the ills of working people around the world, we must support a free union movement in all the countries we import goods from.