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To: flatsville who wrote (75028)	3/3/2001 12:29:52 PM
From: Ilaine	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 436258

>>(IOW the states encouraged and then taught their citizens how to lie, cheat and steal.)<< In other words, members of the liberal class, who believe that government handouts are a constitutional right, connived with each other in order to enable their clients to steal from the government that which was not theirs by law. They justified their actions because they think it's ok to steal as long as it's from the government. It's the same mentality that believes it's ok to steal as long as it's from major corporations. I should note that the mentality that it's ok to steal from government isn't limited to liberals, but it's more common among them. The uncomfortable truth is that these policies encouraged pregnant women not to marry, and created a class of women who never marry, and count on the government to support them and their children, fathered by different men, who are usually unemployed, underemployed, and unemployable, for generations. I agree with you that the stereotype of the welfare queen is false, these women are far from well off - but nevertheless, it's a social problem that welfare policies created. Generation after generation of impoverished, poorly educated, fatherless families clustered around the easiest source of social services are choking major cities all over the country. It pisses off people who work for a living because few mind helping those in need due to bad health, injury, or lack of mental capacity, but this is simply exploitation of what's turned into a free ride. There's no easy solution, but continuing the status quo isn't an option. There's a reason why the states didn't fund these programs before the federal government mandated it, and that's because it was thought that it's the job of families to take care of children, not government. As someone who has spent a lot of time in family court, I think I know quite a bit about social services and foster care, thank you. The homes these children are born into are harrowingly disfunctional. For them it truly takes a city to raise them up right.

To: flatsville who wrote (75028)	3/3/2001 4:48:12 PM
From: LLCF	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 436258

Nice rant! My point was simply that if there are ways into the federal coffers 'why not'?? I don't see where are two points are mutually exlusive at all. <So tell me about how the great state of Arizona with its' current 400 million dollar budget short fall is gonna handle this locally.> Probably with dollars taken from other states... swished about Washington a few times till theres a lot less left, then sent out here to us. :) <By then, if the economy continues to deteriorate, the BIG TALK consevo speak on this issue will be a mere mumbling of the "take this off my hands" variety...> Yea, well if your neighbor said "rake my lawn while your at it... I'm going bowling"- are you going to do it? When your kids learn what candy is do you just give it to them cause they cry? DAK

To: flatsville who wrote (75028)	3/3/2001 5:36:23 PM
From: portage	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 436258

flats, pay me now or pay me later. When the balance is tipped back to the corporate elite, closing one's eyes to this reality brings back the same old problems. Can't eliminate all chiseling by the corporate sector (should we start by indicting the "stock analysts"? - I'd settle for campaign finance reform), and can't eliminate it in all the government programs either. Eliminating all the programs doesn't eliminate all the problems. Just wait until those "faith based" healers get ahold of that dough - Moonie's Corner Sanitarium now open for business. Bring us your crazy, your poor ! Think they'll be willing to work for government wages ? Prior to the last recession, the main concerns in the annual Bay Area poll were transportation congestion and housing costs. During the recession, crime rapidly took over the top spot, alternating with the economy. Now it's housing costs and transportation. Soon again, I expect it will be crime and making the monthly payments (oh yeah, energy prices too), hastened by the multiplier effect that the new bankruptcy bill will bring on. When you got nothing, you got nothing to lose. Clinton understood this, and did something about it (while staying busy self destructing on the personal front). W. probably understands it all too well also, but doesn't care. Too busy preparing for the next fox hunting trip down to the ranch with the big boys. Greenspan ? Who knows where he's coming from anymore. Recently, I met a German woman who's been working here for about a year. She thinks America's work culture is done f*cksed up, and is anxious to head back home to a place where she won't feel forced to work late nights, most weekends, and take her pager with her on her infrequent vacation (didn't it used to be that way here ?). She seemed willing to trade that for fewer tv's and cars, and more time with her friends. She didn't feel like she had that choice here. I don't think it's quite that much of an either-or choice, but for some I guess it is. Meanwhile, guess I'll bunker down and get ready for Bush Recession # 2.