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Strategies & Market Trends : DAYTRADING Fundamentals -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Steve_GTS who wrote (12290)	3/11/2001 8:14:57 AM
From: chris-	Respond to of 18137

10) Last comment, how long have the traders here been looking for the "Holy Grail". I spend too much time looking for the perfect system, and it kills my social / family life. Is this what I have to look forward to as a full time trader someday? I would suspect they have been looking for it for as long as speculation has lived...fortunately, in their search, traders come to realize that the perfect system isn't out there. A system only provides signals from which to respond in trading. How a trader responds to those signals from both entry and exit is what creates profitability or loss. If one system worked, everyone would use it and it would cease to work any longer. The market works in a way to hurt the majority, so when the majority "figures it out", "it" fails. No "Holy Grail Mechanical System" can be perfect because it takes out the human aspect of trading. Stocks move because a shift occurs in aggregate supply and demand. Systems attmept to create probabilities in when those shifts occur. They never create certainty, only probability. With probability always comes an uncertain outcome, which a trader must embrace (and boy have I seen some outcomes). How many times does a stock come into support on the chart, fib, MA, only to fail that support? Why did it fail? Maybe GSCO got out of bed too early and was cranky on the buy side. Maybe JPHQ had a huge sell order to fill if it got to that level. Maybe SBSH needed new leather interior for the Boxster. Point being..there is any number of reasons that a "mechanical system" fails at any given price level. Too many reasons to think any one system is a "Holy Grail". If "they" claim it's the best trading "system" out there, calmly yet quickly exit stage left and try not to laugh too hard while doing it. I'm a firm believer in that trading is at least 80% mental, proper trading mindsets, etc. I would recommend, find a system that you feel comfortable with (TA, Tape Reading, whatever)and then read literature about trading that don't offer " best trading systems". Psychological books by McCall, Kiev, Douglas. Strategy books like Art of War or Money/Risk Management that were also mentioned previously on this thread, are far greater resources for your learning curve. Once you realize that the search for the Grail is pointless, you are definitely closer to market reality and I wish you success on this road. Forgive me about not responding to questions 1-9, but it's Sunday and my doctor won't allow me too much trading discussion on the weekends <g>. Respectfully, Chris BTW - Alan, I finally got that Kool-Aid joke :) I'll wake up here soon.

To: Steve_GTS who wrote (12290)	3/11/2001 10:22:11 AM
From: exdaytrader76	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 18137

Re: Can anyone recommend how to improve on the entries? This is my biggest problem - and I am far from the authority on this - but the concept that helped me most was the idea of the painful entry. Someone told me that in every trade there will be pain and there will be joy. When you chase the entry and buy a stock that is going up and looks perfect, the joy comes first and the pain comes after the stock quickly reverses and you lose money. Good entries are the painful ones. You are buying a stock while it is going down - you get filled on the inside bid or better. In exchange for buying when others are selling, you get a better price. The object is to try to position yourself just ahead of the next wave of fear or greed. Sometimes you just get run over and the stock keeps dropping, but often you will find that you are just ahead of the masses as they rush in to buy what you just bought. Look at the range of the stock on your bar chart, whatever interval, and try to plot your entry points. When I did this, I found that I was always buying at the top of the range because I was chasing the entry. We have a couple guys who make a few thousand every day on JNPR and a few of the other wild ones. They wait until the stock has moved to what they consider the bottom of its range, and stick a bid out a few levels outside the best bid. I am amazed at the fills they get. Sometimes they are filled 1/4 point better than the inside bid, because they are on the other end of the panic selling. This takes intestinal fortitude because they are buying when the stock looks awful on the level 2. When/if the stock goes back up, they do the same thing on the offer - offer at a higher price and get filled by a panic buyer. All of this may be reversed for shorting - offer out into the bounce. IMHO, many of the lessons you need to learn are inside of you. They will come as you identify trading mistakes and learn more about yourself from them. If you are trading now and treading water, that is great. The longer you can go without losing your money, the closer you are to your $10k/day. Good luck and welcome to the thread.

To: Steve_GTS who wrote (12290)	3/11/2001 2:39:13 PM
From: Brandon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 18137

7) My long term goal (2-4 years) is to make 10K per day - Is that a pipe dream??? I know I would need a bigger account around $100K of risk capital. Is this goal unrealistic? Id have to say yes it is. I dont know of off hand of anyone who consistantly makes 10% per day. More realistic is 5 to 15% a month IMHO. There are those who do a lot better than 5 to 15% a month, but again, I dont know of anyone who does it on a daily basis. 4) I am learning scalping from Undergoundtrader.com. I do believe I read some negative postings in this thread about them. I am to new to trading to know any other more successful techniques. - ANY SUGGESTIONS WOULD BE WELCOMED. I dont recall reading anything negative about Jay here..but at anyrate, trading is very much like art. Each person likes a different thing and feels comfortable doing it in a manner different from the next. Im sure many people have been in Jays room and couldnt make money, and of course its never their own fault. IMO you are in one of the few good rooms out there. I think Chris and Vad (Realitytrader.com) run an excellent site as well. They have just added a T/A site and chatroom run by Russell Van Der Biesen and Bo Yoder. I worked with them for almost 1 year and I think they are two of the more talented people in this industry. EricP and I are also active in the chatroom at our sites www.teachmetotrade.com and www.swingtrader.net (different content on each site, same company and products). 10) Last comment, how long have the traders here been looking for the "Holy Grail". I spend too much time looking for the perfect system, and it kills my social / family life. Is this what I have to look forward to as a full time trader someday? Three and a half years ago I found the Holy Grail. Its hard work and money managment. No one likes to hear that this is the grail though. Brandon

To: Steve_GTS who wrote (12290)	3/11/2001 5:04:19 PM
From: TheStockStalker	Respond to of 18137

6) My biggest problem is getting in on the MSL or MSH - I end up predicting instead of reacting. BUT when I see a strong move, I hesitate, thinking the surge will end and I ended up buying at the MSH. Pardon my ignorance but what are those terms???? (MSL,MSH). Is that the Best Bid and Best Offer??? PDT