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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: The Philosopher who wrote (8262)	3/13/2001 1:20:41 PM
From: epicure	Respond to of 82486

ever heard of...volvo? I thought you were extolling their virtues- must have been someone else....

To: The Philosopher who wrote (8262)	3/13/2001 1:41:01 PM
From: cosmicforce	Respond to of 82486

The Swedes made one heck of a motorcycle and an fine bunch of firearms (Husqvarna). My dad bought a rifle of theirs. Fine weapon.

To: The Philosopher who wrote (8262)	3/13/2001 5:48:49 PM
From: thames_sider	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 82486

Well, briefly... The Nobel Prizes were indeed endowered a long time ago. So? Not being a specialist on weapons purchases, I have no idea who buys Saab-based fighters (Viggens?). I suspect they have less government-controlled subsidy than (say) F14's or Tornado's, but who knows... or maybe the Swedes are choosier. Neither of us can exactly boast about our country's weapons purchasers: we competed to supply Saddam, remember? Of course, only one of our countries actively supplied Bin-Laden. Finns are used to being mistaken for Swedes. I've done so (not in Finland, admittedly). They view it as Canadians who are taken for US Americans... resignedly. Can't think it would rouse a lynch mob. (BTW, if it did, what would that prove?). As for the historical 'what ifs', try going back more than 50 years. Try, say, where the US would be if the majority of British industrialism hadn't supported the Yankee side in 1860? Or indeed how you'd be so different from Mexico - or Colombia - if England hadn't colonised in the 1500's onwards? Or, of course, if the Vikings hadn't converted to Xtianity, or the Islamic armies had defeated the French at Marseilles, or the Roman Empire had never reached England, or... or whatever. So? Great SF plots... who knows what changes the butterfly's wing might have brought? Or might bring. Gloat once you've been the world's preeminent power for 200 years, if you can. It isn't pretty, it isn't clever, and it doesn't help. Oh, btw, on WW2 intervention... if the UK hadn't helped and fought before you even noticed the genocide, Germany would likely have had nukes and effective ICBM's by 1944. Check their scientific, engineering, and rocketry records up till then. Sure, we're grateful, even when our noses are rubbed in it by the descendants of the helpful, even after nearly all those who actually did anything for us have died... But be thankful that you won, and that other far, far smaller countries picked up the burden and took all the impact until you were ready. And do read up on where computers - not tabulators, computers -got pioneered, and by whom... it will clearly come as a surprise. As will the country that invented the jet engine. Or, talking of medicines, antibiotics. And, most of all, before you so airily dismiss the contributions of entire countries, before you claim such glory for yourself, ask how different the world would be without you. Then read this - written to celebrate the 60th jubilee of the Empress of India... and IMO one of the finest works of anti-Imperialism (or poetry) ever: lockstockandbarrel.org