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Politics : PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Machaon who wrote (131780)	3/14/2001 1:35:43 PM
From: Lane3	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 769667

Ask the next victim of a hate crime how he or she feels about the light sentence given to the criminal. I really think that you're too focused on a proposed means as a surrogate for the desired ends. Just because you don't want hate crime legislation doesn't mean you're indifferent to hate crimes. A couple of other examples. Just because you don't support affirmative action doesn't mean you're a bigot. Just because you're not Born Again doesn't mean you have no morals. Just because you don't like unions doesn't mean you don't support workers. Just because you don't want to ban flag burning doesn't mean you're unpatriotic. I could go on. To me it makes more sense to focus on what you're trying to accomplish. If your particular proposal doesn't have much popular support, find a different proposal to accomplish the same thing and run that up the flagpole. Confusing the means with the ends is not very productive. Karen

To: Machaon who wrote (131780)	3/14/2001 3:41:59 PM
From: Little Joe	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 769667

Robert: There is a lot in your post I feel compelled to comment on: "<< We already have a tangled mess of too many laws. >> The wonderful result of having lawyers, who profit from the tangled mess, serving as our politicians." It is fascinating to me that you blame the fact that we have too many laws on lawyers, when it seems to me you want to add additional laws to deal with your pet peeves. Are you a lawyer?? Don't you understand that silly laws that sound like they are accomplishing something but do nothing are ususally the result of the many special interest groups, conservative and liberal, who are pushing one agenda or another. They are not the result of lawyers. If we are concerned about this, we need only look in the mirror and the person looking back is the problem. << We should all be offended by hate crimes and that added offense should be reflected in the sentences of the perpetrators. >> But, all of us are not offended by hate crimes. For instance, the most active participants on this thread have said that they don't recognize hate crimes as being different from other crimes. This is scary! I agree that we should be offended by hate crimes, as well as by senseless acts of violence, crimes against children, crimes against senior citizens, crimes against disabled people, crimes that are particularly vicious and the list goes on. The appropriate place to deal with these issues is in the sentencing. Usually there is a range of time and/or the amount of fines that can be given for a crime. The judge has discretion and if the crime is a hate crime he or she can simply give more time or a higher fine and this is what in fact happens in most cases. In Capital cases where the penalty is death. Are we going to kill them twice. If it is life in prison will we sentence them to life in prison two times. The hate crimes legislation is exactly the kind of legislation that is feel good but accomplishes nothing. "<< We do not need new laws to accomplish that. >> Ask the next victim of a hate crime how he or she feels about the light sentence given to the criminal." If a light sentence is given to one who commits a hate crime it is probably the judge who is at fault. I know of no judge in my area who would not consider the fact that a crime was motivated by hate as an aggravating factor and who would not increase the sentence as a result. Little joe