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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: E who wrote (8943)	3/19/2001 1:01:48 AM
From: Neocon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

ENCYCLOPÆDIA BRITANNICA pogrom (Russian: "devastation," or "riot"), a mob attack, either approved or condoned by authorities, against the persons and property of a religious, racial, or national minority. The term is usually applied to attacks on Jews in the Russian Empire in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. The first extensive pogroms followed the assassination of Tsar Alexander II in 1881. Although the assassin was not a Jew, and only one Jew was associated with him, false rumours aroused Russian mobs in more than 200 cities and towns to attack Jews and destroy their property. In the two decades following, pogroms gradually became less prevalent; but from 1903 to 1906 they were common throughout the country. Thereafter, to the end of the Russian monarchy, mob action against the Jews was intermittent and less widespread. The pogrom in Kishinev (now Chisinau) in Russian-ruled Moldavia in April 1903, although more severe than most, was typical in many respects. For two days mobs, inspired by local leaders acting with official support, killed, looted, and destroyed without hindrance from police or soldiers. When troops were finally called out and the mob dispersed, 45 Jews had been killed, nearly 600 had been wounded, and 1,500 Jewish homes had been pillaged. Those responsible for inciting the outrages were not punished. The Russian central government did not organize pogroms, as was widely believed; but the anti-Semitic policy that it carried out from 1881 to 1917 made them possible. Official persecution and harassment of Jews led the numerous anti-Semites to believe that their violence was legitimate, and their belief was strengthened by the active participation of a few high and many minor officials in fomenting attacks and by the reluctance of the government either to stop pogroms or to punish those responsible for them. Pogroms have also occurred in other countries, notably in Poland and in Germany during the Hitler regime. See also anti-Semitism; Kristallnacht. britannica.com It is true that there was some anti- Jewish rioting during the Crusades, and sporadic rioting at other times. The Russian pogroms stand out not merely because they are recent, but because their intensity and frequency were unusual........

To: E who wrote (8943)	3/19/2001 1:05:12 AM
From: Neocon	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 82486

I would be glad for some citations from the Church Fathers. I have, in the past, read a number of Patristic works, and the sort of passages you cite are by no means common. I may have missed something, but that is why citation would be helpful. The main texts on the treatment of slaves that I refer to are, if I recall correctly, in Deuteronomy. I will see if I can track some down.

To: E who wrote (8943)	3/19/2001 2:28:22 AM
From: Neocon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

Exodus 23 12 "Six days do your work, but on the seventh day do not work, so that your ox and your donkey may rest and the slave born in your household, and the alien as well, may be refreshed. Leviticus 25 39 "`If one of your countrymen becomes poor among you and sells himself to you, do not make him work as a slave. 40 He is to be treated as a hired worker or a temporary resident among you; he is to work for you until the Year of Jubilee. Deuteronomy 23 15 If a slave has taken refuge with you, do not hand him over to his master. 16 Let him live among you wherever he likes and in whatever town he chooses. Do not oppress him. 1 Corinthians 7 20 Each one should remain in the situation which he was in when God called him. 21 Were you a slave when you were called? Don't let it trouble you--although if you can gain your freedom, do so. 22 For he who was a slave when he was called by the Lord is the Lord's freedman; similarly, he who was a free man when he was called is Christ's slave. Ephesians 6 8 because you know that the Lord will reward everyone for whatever good he does, whether he is slave or free. 9 And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him. 10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. Colossians 4 1 Masters, provide your slaves with what is right and fair, because you know that you also have a Master in heaven.

To: E who wrote (8943)	3/19/2001 9:51:24 AM
From: Neocon	Respond to of 82486

siliconinvestor.com

To: E who wrote (8943)	3/19/2001 11:58:47 AM
From: Solon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

Do you have a place where, in the New Testament, humane treatment of all slaves is advocated, or is this advocacy one that has to be detected and inferred by hermeneutic maneuvers Well, I thought I would try to answer some of this question. The quotes below are from both the New and the Old, as Jesus and others pointedly incorporated all of the Old into the New...to the very last word. Perhaps some "hermeneutic maneuvers" are helpful, at least insofar as they might discourage the eschewal of the evincible ethical precepts of this good and ancient group of ordinary folks. Putting an awl through the ear is only one of the rules that the God of the bible created in order to ensure that slavery was done right. The slaves were also supposed to be kept in fear and trembling, and were to endure wrongful treatment with patience because suffering is good. This is humane, isn't it? Slavery -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment: - Slavery -- Another horror that was not condemned, but actually accepted by Jesus-worshippers, Allah-worshippers, and others that based their view of slavery on the relevant scriptures. The Bible does not condemn slavery -- it actually provides rules for slave behavior. The Bible sanctions and relates slavery to godliness. How primitive! These books are dangerous! Another strike against the Bible being a message from the God of the Universe. Thankfully humans, if given a chance, have greater compassion than the 'Holy' books, religious deities and their henchmen. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Some verses from the Bible that deal with slavery: Servant refers to Slave. Ephesians 6:5 - 7* 5 Servants, be obedient to them that are [your] masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ; 6 Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart; 7 With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men: (Slaves obey masters with fear and trembling) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Colossians 3:22 22 Servants, obey in all things [your] masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God: (Slaves obey your masters in all things) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 Timothy 6:1 - 6 1. Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honour, that the name of God and [his] doctrine be not blasphemed. 2 And they that have believing masters, let them not despise [them], because they are brethren; but rather do [them] service, because they are faithful and beloved, partakers of the benefit. These things teach and exhort. 3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, [even] the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; 4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, 5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself. 6. But godliness with contentment is great gain. (Slaves honour your masters) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Titus 2:9 - 10* 9 [Exhort] servants to be obedient unto their own masters, [and] to please [them] well in all [things]; not answering again; 10 Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things. (Slaves obey your masters, please them and don't talk back) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 Peter 2:18 - 21* 18 Servants, [be] subject to [your] masters with all fear; not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward. 19 For this [is] thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully. 20 For what glory [is it], if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer [for it], ye take it patiently, this [is] acceptable with God. 21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: (Slaves obey unreasonable masters. Endure grief and suffer wrongfully.) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Luke 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not [himself], neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many [stripes]. (Jesus says slaves should be beaten) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Genesis 9:25 * 25 And he said, Cursed [be] Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren. (God of the Bible does not condemn slavery, but gives rules for it.) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Exodus 21:26 - 27 26 And if a man smite the eye of his servant, or the eye of his maid, that it perish; he shall let him go free for his eye's sake. 27 And if he smite out his manservant's tooth, or his maidservant's tooth; he shall let him go free for his tooth's sake. (Possibly a good rule for slaves?? -- Slavery is not condemned) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Exodus 21:20 * 20 And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. 21 Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he [is] his money. (Beating a slave is alright as you do not kill him) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Leviticus 25:45 - 46* 45 Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that [are] with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession. 46 And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit [them for] a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever: but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour. (Children of strangers can be taken as slaves forever) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Deuteronomy 20:10 - 11* 10. When thou comest nigh unto a city to fight against it, then proclaim peace unto it. 11 And it shall be, if it make thee answer of peace, and open unto thee, then it shall be, [that] all the people [that is] found therein shall be tributaries unto thee, and they shall serve thee. (Slavery is not condemned by God, but rules are made for it) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Deuteronomy 28:68 68 And the LORD shall bring thee into Egypt again with ships, by the way whereof I spake unto thee, Thou shalt see it no more again: and there ye shall be sold unto your enemies for bondmen and bondwomen, and no man shall buy [you]. (Slavery expected) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Deuteronomy 15:17 * 17 Then thou shalt take an aul, and thrust [it] through his ear unto the door, and he shall be thy servant for ever. And also unto thy maidservant thou shalt do likewise. (An awl must be thrust through the ear of any slave and that slave is yours forever) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Deuteronomy 15:12 12. [And] if thy brother, an Hebrew man, or an Hebrew woman, be sold unto thee, and serve thee six years; then in the seventh year thou shalt let him go free from thee. (Slavery is not condemned by God of the Bible. God of the Bible makes rules for it) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Job 31:13 -15 13 If I did despise the cause of my manservant or of my maidservant, when they contended with me; 14 What then shall I do when God riseth up? and when he visiteth, what shall I answer him? 15 Did not he that made me in the womb make him? and did not one fashion us in the womb? (A semi-good verse. A person reasons that a slave should be treated with dignity in spite of God) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joel 3:8 * 8 And I will sell your sons and your daughters into the hand of the children of Judah, and they shall sell them to the Sabeans, to a people far off: for the LORD hath spoken [it]. (God of the Bible sells people into slavery) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- users.uniserve.com