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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: one_less who wrote (9359)	3/22/2001 11:48:27 AM
From: epicure	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

I didn't say you couldn't include a designer- you can throw in the kitchen sink if you like. I really can't stop you. I merely said it didn't make sense to take the extra step. My view has no limits. Anything could be possible. You, oddly enough, claim to need justice and fairness- can't think of much that is more limiting than that. Now that you've told me I said something I did not say, shall I call you a liar? Or shall I use you for exhibit B? Perhaps both.

To: one_less who wrote (9359)	3/22/2001 12:19:37 PM
From: thames_sider	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 82486

The idea of an eternity (no beginning or end) includes no limitations. Firstly, according to current physics time was not there before the start of the universe - time began with the Big Bang. So we don't have eternity. Secondly, the universe presumably cannot contain anything from 'outside' the universe, there is no 'outside' - so, er, how could anything within the universe create it? Thirdly, even given eternity, there are limitations. Heisenberg's principle. Lightspeed in vacuo. Eternity is not long enough to break a literally universal law. Fourthly, it now looks as though we have an ever-expanding universe. I recall reading a while back that we can therefore expect to see proton decay within 10^60 years or so, following which the universe will consist mainly of neutrons and neutrinos... depressing thought, huh? But as far as we can tell at least this will go on for ever. Lastly, although The idea of an eternity ...includes no limitations. - we live in an actuality, not an idea. The fact that something in theory has no limitations does not mean that this something is present in reality. You can say what you like - about the idea; but it need not apply. (how do I think the universe started? random fluctuation.)