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Politics : PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Catfish who wrote (133388)	3/25/2001 1:08:47 AM
From: Kevin Rose	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 769667

I know I'll regret this, but I'll enter the fray. My opinion on these labels (far right, and far left) is that they mean nothing; they are both ultra-evil, repressive, murderous, and totalitarian. However, I believe that the reason that the Communists were put 'on the far left' is the same as why the Nazis were put 'on the far right'. Let me make a case. Communism is the extremist version of Socialism, which is the extremist version of the Democratic party ideals. The basic tenets of the Democratic party is equality for all; equal opportunity, equal education, equal treatment under the law. Raise up the lower ends, sometimes are cost to the upper ends. This great 'lifting' will eventually benefit all, as the upper end does not have to support the lower end as much; the whole curve is 'lifted'. Socialism uses more extreme measures to reach this goal; socialized medicine, education, social programs, everything is tooled to 'lifting the curve'. Communism is the extreme of THAT; no personal property ownership, everyone is an 'equal', the curve is flat and only rises if the whole thing rises. Note I am talking intents and theories here, so let's not argue that many times the above 'ideals' are nowhere near accomplished. On the other hand, Republican tenets are Conservative in nature; preservation of independence and individual freedoms, moral and ethical standards, ability to get ahead by hard work, acceptance of individual responsibility, and pride in workmanship. Taken to the extreme, it becomes a strictly caste, hierarchical system; those on the top are served by those below. Individual responsibility (pulling your own weight) is important for the good of the whole; you do your job not only because your have responsibility to yourself and your family, but because you have a greater responsiblity to the nation to do so. The pride that you feel becomes pride in the whole nation. To the extreme, it becomes ego and jingoism, with the natural progression to loathing and hatred of outsiders. At this extreme is where the Nazi party lives: extremely ordered, regimented, classed society with a single purpose; the good of the state. Individual freedoms fall away, and are replaced by responsibilities to the state. I believe this is why Communism is categorized as 'far left' and Nazism 'far right'. The political science majors out there will laugh at my oversimplification and overgeneralization, but it the way I see it. Both Stalinist Communism and Hitler Nazism were dominated by hatred, murder, corruption, immorality, and evil. However, they are at 'ideologically' opposite ends of the (somewhat arbitrary) spectrum. But it helps explain why Germans hated Russians, and vice versa, during this period. They saw themselves at either end of the spectrum, even though we see them as nearly the same. Having now also jumped into this fray, I've got to ask: why are we arguing about it? Is it to try to point fingers at each other; us Democrats calling Republicans 'Nazis' (which I've done) and Republicans calling us 'Commies'? Are we trying to shift the spectrum around for our own name calling purposes; "Hey, you're closer to a Nazi than me". As I've said, I think of Pat Buchanan as the farthest right of anyone, and I believe if the Nazis showed up on the shores tomorrow, he'd be one of the first to pick up a gun and fight them. So to what purpose is this argument? And why am I in it? :)

To: Catfish who wrote (133388)	3/25/2001 9:59:52 PM
From: rich4eagle	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 769667

Since you seem to know my political philosophy and I have yet have not posted it. Please tell me my political philosophy so that I can tell everyone else here what it is! BTW, you keep quoting folks who print what you want to believe. I personally find that both of the excerpts you quoted were likely written by conservative christian right wingers justifying their position. And furthermore, I disdain both excerpts as pure hogwash. I do, however, respect your efforts in gathering the information even it is self justifying for the right wing conservative cause. The soviet communists and Nazi's are so far away from socialism that it boggles the mind. What are socialistic states are the current countries of Norway, Sweden, New Zealand, France, Australia, and to some degree Canada. Do you think these countries are closer to Stalin's Soviet Union and Nazi Germany or to the current US?