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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Lane3 who wrote (10108)	3/30/2001 1:32:22 PM
From: Neocon	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 82486

I agree. That is why I referred to the tradition of non- denominational benedictions. I think it is rude not to take into account, and make reasonable provision, for the sensitivities of participants, and therefore to be highly sectarian, for example. I do, on the other hand, think that it is not unreasonable to expect accommodation on both sides. For example, if most of my guests were meat eaters, it is unlikely that I would serve a vegetarian dinner, as opposed to having an appropriate entree prepared for the vegetarians in the group. I know that I am rarely satisfied by vegan entrees. No, I would not have a side of beef, if I had Hindu guests, since that is a particularly delicate point. On the other hand, if I had a Christmas tree or menorah, supposing it were the season, I would not feel obliged to take it down. So, I would say that the majority should take into account the sensitivities of the minority, but that the minority has a reciprocal duty to not make a fuss at every turn.

To: Lane3 who wrote (10108)	3/30/2001 3:56:34 PM
From: TimF	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

Neo, say you had all of the Boxing Ring gang over for dinner. You'd serve something vegetarian. To do otherwise would be rude. I don't care if you are famous far and wide for your Beef Wellington and you traditionally fix it every Sunday. You wouldn't serve it that Sunday because that would be rude and you'd know better. You would restrain you desire to show off your Beef Wellington out of respect for the vegetarians in the group. What about the people in the group who don't like vegetables? Tim

To: Lane3 who wrote (10108)	3/30/2001 6:11:28 PM
From: Gordon A. Langston	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 82486

It's bad manners for hosts to not go out of their way to make everyone to feel included and comfortable. I know you know I'm not suggesting that rudeness should be illegal, only that it should carry more weight with our saintly neighbors. I guess the reason no one comments on Jews is that they don't proselytize. Here is guide I found for goyim or I gather anyone who is not orthodox. Anyone that knows more about this please feel free to correct at any point. I don't claim much practical knowledge and this guide may not be kosher.;) If you are married, you may find the social climate a bit more welcoming. You still need to maintain some reserve – especially around Jews of the opposite sex. And hospitality remains one-sided. They can invite you to their place for dinner. And you can’t reciprocate. Relax and enjoy it. Here are a few social "Do’s": Do attend a bar/bat mitzvah, a wedding, a Shabbat meal when invited. go. These are considered religious rather than social occasions. Do be cordial and polite. To maintain your reserve, it helps to be a bit formal. Since the Jewish community is rather mannerly anyway, you are not going to feel out of place. Do send Jewish friends holiday cards for Rosh HaShanah, Hanukkah, and Pesakh if you wish. Yes, you are cultivating your social relationship by doing so, but you are primarily encouraging your friends in the practice of their Jewish traditions and mitzvot. And that’s a good thing. Do contribute to organizations that bring Jewish men and women together. This is an especially appropriate form of tzedekah (charity) for unmarried non-Jews. Do introduce Jewish friends to each other. And a few social "Don’ts": Don’t ask a Jew for a date. Don’t accept a date from a Jew. Don’t fix up a Jewish friend with a non-Jewish friend. Don’t invite Jews to your house or elsewhere, especially when you expect to serve refreshments. (An exception could be made if you have been working with your local Orthodox rabbi and can meet kashrut guidelines for your event.) If you have been invited to a Jewish family’s home for any occasion, go but don’t think you are supposed to reciprocate. You’re not. Don’t give Jews edible or potable gifts – unless you know that they are kosher. Don’t drink wine in unavoidable social situations with Jews. According to Jewish halakha, Jews are forbidden from drinking wine in social situations with non-Jews. That’s because wine is thought to loosen social inhibitions and to lead to inappropriate relationships. Kashrut laws around wine reinforce this principle. What makes a wine kosher – aside from making sure that it does not have any non-kosher ingredients – is that it is touched only by Jews at key points in the process. If fact, if you touch an open unpasteurized bottle of kosher wine, you make it non-kosher for Jews. An except to the rule against sharing wine with Jews occurs at a religious occasion – a Shabbat meal, a wedding, a bar/bat mitzvah, a brit milah (circumcision). These are not considered social occasions and you will usually be offered wine. It is okay to accept, though if a rabbi is available, you might want to check. Don't mislead anyone about your marital status. Don’t attend a wedding, especially the religious portion, between a Jew and a non-Jew. If you are a minister, do not perform the wedding between a non-Jew and a Jew. The above Do’s and Don’t are designed to help bring you into the appropriate relationship with the observant Jewish community. Strictly speaking, they apply to your relationships with any Jew – observant or not. But while observant Jews will understand and be grateful for such behavior, liberal and secular Jews may think you have gone off the deep end – even as they complain about loss of Jewish identity, the high number of Jews marrying non-Jews, and so on. How to behave with them is an interesting question, something that is worth discussing in another forum. – KENNETH GUENTERT