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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Greg or e who wrote (10314)	4/4/2001 1:00:11 PM
From: thames_sider	Respond to of 82486

Greg, leaving aside the Biblical quotes, I'd contend that it is important to do what is right... and that no godly presence is needed in order to know this, as has been shown here earlier. Simply 'knowing', on its own, is insufficient - both are a requirement (is it even possible to consistently do 'right' without reference to some standard, internal or external, and hence without knowing it?). As to Paul, well I simply disagree. Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law... This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God Meanwhile he also defines righteousness as believing in Jesus, which IMO rather renders his argument circular. There is no one righteous, not even one; there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one." No one? Uh-huh. They're all sinners becasue they don't worship as I do, no matter how they live. There's the crux. It doesn't matter how well you behave, says Paul (or, he implies, how badly) - you're a sinner and damned unless you worship in the way I proscribe. LOL. I don't. Nor do I believe I'm innately evil and condemned simply and solely because I choose not to worship his God. BTW, Xianity is authentic enough, someone posted a derivation a while back; but I'm also a lazy typist <g>

To: Greg or e who wrote (10314)	4/4/2001 4:54:05 PM
From: TimF	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

Pelagius argued that humanity was not affected by Adam's transgression, (as the Bible clearly says we are) Greg, I am at least nominally Christian, probably quite a bit more then nominal even though I do not regularly go to church, but I have a problem with the idea that we have any responsibility for or can justly receive any punishment for Adam's transgressions I don't actually believe that Adam existed because I don't interpret the Bible literally but more generally I have some problem with the idea of original sin unless by that you just mean that people are imperfect and are subject to temptation. Tim