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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: The Philosopher who wrote (11271)4/14/2001 12:46:12 AM
From: Dayuhan  Read Replies (3) | Respond to of 82486
 
Deaf people don't perceive themselves as handicapped or deficient in any way. Rather, they think that they are better off because they lack the ability to hear. They look down on hearing people.

A somewhat sweeping generalization there, which you might wish to qualify before people start picking it apart.


So you are welcome to look down on those of us who have a spiritual dimension to our lives. Maybe, like deaf people, you feel you are better off without this extension of your being.

The deaf know that sound exists. They cannot perceive it, but there is abundant empirical evidence to demonstrate that it exists.

I wouldn't say I look down on people who claim a spiritual dimension to their lives. I can't begin to understand their beliefs, but I wouldn't say that I look down on them. Neither can I see any way in which a spiritual dimension might enrich my life, which is implausibly rich already. I grew up in a religious household, and made an honest but utterly unsuccessful effort to believe. I finally had to admit that I did not and could not possibly believe the stories I was being told, and that no matter how hard I had tried to fake it, I never saw anything to them beyond a morass of rigid and restrictive superstitions. How anyone could find enrichment in that I do not know, but those who can are welcome to it. Even if I did think a spiritual dimension would enrich my life, I could not in honesty force myself to believe or pretend to believe simply because I thought belief might enrich my life.



To: The Philosopher who wrote (11271)4/14/2001 12:55:01 AM
From: epicure  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 82486
 
I don't really look down on people with belief in general, they are simply very different from me. I merely said I felt it was my gain (and not my loss) to be the way I am (I can't "prove" it, I said feel for that specific reason) - I didn't say anything about other people. I don't perceive myself to be handicapped in any way, nor have I any clue whether other people are handicapped. Your inference that I look down on people with a spiritual dimension is oddly out of tune with my perception of what I am doing. Perhaps it is your projection onto me of the feeling of disdain you have for people without belief? I have to go with my perception of my own reality rather than yours. You are telling me I am welcome to do something I have no intention of doing. Inability to understand is not the equivalent of looking down upon. I probably do look down upon people who wish to pity people who have no desire to be pitied. Or people who wish to save people who have no desire to be saved, etc etc etc. Because the obvious declamation of pity is a hostile act. I've used that myself when really annoyed with people. It was a hostile thing to do and invariably pissed people when I did it (which was my goal). I don't think they wanted to get angry, but pitying them was very manipulative of me. I assure you that because I understand this particular behavior I am not angry, and perhaps you do not wish to be hostile, or you do not realize how hostile you are, or this is some weird continuation of your angry "jokes" and insults? I can't know. I am sorry you fail to understand that by valuing my own unique way of looking at the universe I am not per se putting down whatever way it is you are looking at it. I have said repeatedly I cannot understand faith. I don't know what it's like. That said, I've got a really wonderful thing going. I don't want or need anything. I feel at peace. I cannot explain it to you- you wouldn't understand. It's my own thing. You will find, or have found, your own thing. Or you won't. And you won't need to put other people down, or you will. It's totally up to you. Nothing to do with me. The attitude seems to be yours, and not mine. The attitude you speak of is a gift I choose not to accept- I will leave it with you.